200mi Events

Hey all, I got coerced into running a 200mi event next fall and am looking for any insights into the logistics of the whole thing.

I think I have a reasonable longterm training plan for the event that will strongly resembles an IM plan with additional running; ie most of my long rides and replaced with long “runs” buildings up to 10-15hr weekends on my feet.

What I don’t entirely understand is, well, everything else. I’m starting to work on eating more actual food on my long runs/hikes and trying to eat bigger “meals” instead of a steady carb drip like shorter races, but what else should I be thinking about and trying while I still have 6-8 months to prep?

Does anyone have any additional insights for crew, drop bags, gear, aid stations, etc? I have never spent more than 60sec in an aid station but have never ran more than 50k.

Any additional hints, tips, video reccomendations are very welcome. This is a significant departure from my experience so I’ll take any advice you have.

Thanks everyone!

Listen to Ten Junk Miles podcast; there’s a lot of insight in there and - if nothing else - it’s an entertaining show

I haven’t done 200mi, but I’ve done 48hr and 72hr races.

What I’ve found to be really valuable training is doing double run days (during several years of the 100 runs in 100 days), and doing a slightly modified version of the Goggins 4x4x48 challenge (my segments were a bit more than 4mi each). Getting comfortable with getting up after a rest and running again on legs that absolutely do not want to work, and especially with doing so while sleep deprived.

Expect to walk a lot. TRAIN to walk a lot. You won’t get better trained at walking by running, so make some of your training several-hour hikes, preferably with similar climbing and descending to the course. Adding a bit of extra weight to a pack while you’re hiking can help.

Most people will use poles for 200mi races. Train with the poles, on all sorts of terrain - your shoulders will thank you later. Figure out if you need to wear gloves to keep your hands from getting munched.

Expect to get way colder than you think you will at any given temperature, especially at night. Have warm, dry layers in all drop bags (and I mean right up to puffy jackets even for summer races). Fresh socks or a change of shoes (to give hotspots a rest) will help - for later drop bags have shoes that are a half to one and a half sizes larger than your usual size to accommodate swelling. Baby wipes and a toothbrush and toothpaste in a few drop bags, too - it’s hard to overstate how much more human you feel if you can wipe that crust of salt off your face and get the coat of fuzz off your teeth.

For crew, you want people who will both parent and bully you. You will protest doing things that you should be doing (eating/drinking/grabbing gear) like a toddler having a tantrum - they must not capitulate to your petulance. They must also not be put off by helping wrestle someone who smells like the dumpster behind a fast food restaurant on a hot summer day out of their clothing and/or shoes and back into fresh duds. Knowledge of foot care (lancing and dressing blisters) is very helpful, too, and you should have foot care stuff like duct tape or leukotape in every drop bag, plus lube - ALL THE LUBE.

Extra batteries for headlamps are great, but you can’t use the headlamp you’re taking the batteries out of to help you see how the replacement batteries go in. Either carry a second light source, or just one of the little single-use glow sticks; they weigh heck all and will throw just enough light to let you work.

Make a plan for your crew access aid stations, but discuss with your crew that the plan may need to change. You’re not going to know (unless you’ve done this a bunch of times) if you’ll be able to stomach the thought of the burrito you thought you’d want at mile 136, so have other options - LOTS of options - for food. Sweet, salty, different textures (especially soft things like melted ice cream in case your teeth/jaw are sore), and definitely hot food for the nights - a thermos full of broth doesn’t have many calories, but it will warm you up when you’re shivering and stiffening up. Hot chocolate will do the same with more calories. Be mindful of too much fiber, and avoid spicy foods unless you’re really sure about your belly. Know that bowel and bladder control become god-tier skills after 25 or 30hrs of movement, so try not to test your limits with anything you’re taking in (also another reason to have baby wipes readily available).

When you nap, try to do so with your legs elevated. If you’ve removed your shoes while napping with your feet up, tie them loosely when you get up because your feet will start to swell again once gravity takes over. You’ll immediately get chilled upon waking; try to get moving again as fast as possible to warm yourself up.

Lol that’s probably enough of a novel for now

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You forgot “be a class act like @mistressk and have an amazing thank you present for your crew” - I love my alpaca hoodie!

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@mistressk , Thank you! Those are the tidbits I’m looking for. There’s a ton of information there that I can lean on over the next few months.

I’ve been considering doing a 4x4x48 or similar, I guess I just need to pick a weekend and commit to it.

I hear the comment about training to walk and my “long runs” have gone from 2:30-3hr runs at 7:30/mi to 3-4hrs at 10:00/mi and as they get longer I anticipate on forcing them slower, particularly as I get into bigger doubles and back-to-backs. But how did you work elevation into your plan? My race has ~50,000’ of elevation gain and thankfully I live somewhere it’s not terribly hard to get elevation, particularly once the days get longer, but I’m still not sure how to balance time/distance/elevation/injury prevention in the whole design.

and @Scheherazade , this is the real gold tip! I’ll be hunting for some good crew presents, the alpaca hoodie gives me some fun ideas…

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I do this even for “short” street races (10mile/20-30K/HM) I put these items in my “lucky race bag”

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Treating your crew well should go without saying - especially if they are not only willing to give up their time (and sleep), but also bring you the most amazing home-cooked chicken you’ve ever had in your life…TWICE! Plus feeding your spouse-aka-other-crew’s A&W addiction as well. Scher is a rockstar!

When I talk about training to walk - and this plays into injury prevention - I mean going out on an intentional hike with zero running as well as incorporating more walking into training runs. Some of your “long runs” should be 6-8hr hikes, which carry little injury risk. You can also practice eating more solid foods; heck, pack along a burger, burrito, or just a big sandwich. Eat a bunch of trail mix. Get your gut used to processing protein and fat (remembering that protein takes a lot of water to digest) while moving at a moderate effort. Yes, walk more during your longer runs as well to get accustomed to switching back and forth between running and walking, but sometimes you just have to go move slowly all day, especially if your prior max run was 50k.

This also brings up one small detail: are you already registered? I know a lot of the 200mi races require you to submit your palmares in order to qualify for entry, and those generally need to include at least one 100mi or 24hr finish. This all becomes academic if you are not actually permitted to start…

Edited to add: injury resistance and your late-stage body condition will also be improved by strength training. Get yourself together a decent routine of squats, hinges, lunges and/or box step ups, plus core stabilization work, and do it at least a couple of times a week without fail (personally I lift 4 days per week, Mon-Thurs). If you have imbalances or specific weaknesses, find ways to work on them. The number of people you will see towards the end of a long ultra who are bent over sideways like they’re trying to become the letter C (known as “the ultra lean” is astonishing…

Sorry one more thing, because this is a big one: ultras are basically a master course in disaster management. Your ability to problem solve and not be derailed by the problems that arise throughout the race will most likely dictate whether or not you DNF. Some things - weather, pain, fatigue - aren’t in your control, and you need to be able to let go of them and not let them get you despondent. “Acknowledge and dismiss”, then carry on. Other things you will need to be able to think on your feet; adding another layer, or dropping one, or figuring out what to do when one of your poles snaps or your headlamp batteries drained 40% faster than expected due to cold weather. You have to work the problem and keep moving, which is easier said than done when it feels like a challenge just to count your legs or remember your own name. Your crew can help, as can aid station volunteers, but for long stretches of a 200mi it will just be you and your own brain and legs to get you by. Try to think through each worst-case-possible scenario, and come up with a mitigation strategy. Then, try not to panic when something you never even imagined goes wrong - just work the problem, and keep moving forward.

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Of course! I had planned on most of what you said regarding the crew, just good to get the bump to get everyone something special instead of simply paying for food/gas etc. I actually live close to the course and they will have to drive by the house a few times so hopefully they can take advantage and get some real sleep during the event. If anyone has any crew tips, for me or for the crew directly, I would love to hear those as well! I may get one or two experienced crew members but most of us will be new to this and flying by the seat of our pants.

Make sense, I’ve traditionally not eaten a real meal before long runs due to GI issues but I’ve made a point to eat real food before longer trainining and figuring out what intensities I can maintain without seeing it again. I’ve started carrying solid foods on longer runs, but haven’t had a chance to get out on real long days to really warrant carrying burrito, but I’m excited for it! haha.

Yea, my prior longest run distance is 50k, but it was only 3:40. It was definitely a run, not anything even similar to this 200. Longest day would be my first IM ~11hr or some long rides around 11-12hrs, or maybe some backpacking trips…

I was able to get registered without the (very prudent) palmeres that I probably should have. I volunteered extensively at this race in the past and apparently had a good word put in for me that got me bumped up the list. I’m clearly not smart enough to decline a challenge so here we are. My first real big weekend will probably be a 50k/marathon double in early april to jumpstart my good weather training and really dig into the long SLOW distance training.

Strength training has definely moved from a “nice to have” to a “shall” in the last few months with a big focus on posterior chain and core stabilization. I’ve been hearing this a lot and have been trying to convince myself that it’s enjoyable instead of a chore, hopefully I get there but I will certainly continue lifting reagrdless of the enjoyment.

And honestly, I agreed to run this for two reasons: 1) Do something I’m honestly not sure if I’ll finish, and 2) learn to slow down. 1 really goes with your last point, I love the challenge and problem solving and look forward to having to work through them even though I obviously intend to plan and mitigate as many as possible. I believe that I tend to be pretty level-headed and analytical to solving these types of problems but sleep deprivation will add a new variable that I haven’t had to address in any significant way up to this point.

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The biggest things for your crew:

  1. You can’t take care of your runner if you’re in distress yourself. Take care of your needs (food/sleep/clothing) during the downtime when the runner is on course.

  2. Pour in, dump out - do NOT complain to the runner if you’re cold/hungry/tired. Complain to other crew, aid station volunteers, anyone else: for the runner, you are nothing but a rock-steady source of positivity and energy

  3. Don’t ask your runner how they’re doing - TELL THEM that they’re doing amazing, looking strong, getting it done. Be relentlessly cheerful! Asking a runner how they feel is an invitiation for the runner to start going down the increasingly-long list of things that suck, bringing them to the forefront of their mind. You only want them focused on feeling good and moving well, so lie to their face even when they look like 10lbs of shit in a 5lb bag and tell them they’re awesome!

  4. Make specific offers. Don’t ask “what would you like to eat?” - instead ask them “do you want the potatoes with salt, the gummy bears, or a cheese quesadilla?” The runner’s brain WILL NOT WORK and you will waste time if they’re trying to remember what kind of food they have available - give them a menu to work from.

  5. Further to the above: ask specific questions about gear/care - “do you need another layer?” “do you want a dry shirt?” “do you have any hotspots (take care of these right away)?” “take your headlamp, it’s only 2hrs til sunset”, “does your watch need charging?”. Also “when was the last time you peed?” to see if the runner is hydrating, and “when did you last eat?”

  6. As mentioned previously, be prepared to be a bully. Also be prepared to see someone you care enough about to sign on as crew suffering (this is something my husband struggles with). Do not entertain any language about quitting from the runner, unless it is a legitimate medical emergency. Tired and sore? That was built into this from the start - get moving. Want to sit down and whinge? Nope, sorry - get what you need, and GTFO. Yes I’ll tie your shoe for you, no you can’t have five more minutes in the chair, yes you have to take this food, no you can’t eat it here, eat while you walk…

They should assume at all times they are dealing with an oversized toddler in need of a snack and a nap.

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Do you listen to the SWAP podcast? Podcast @DaveRoche often talks about his uphill treadmill workouts so there maybe so good tidbits in there (I don’t remember enough to be useful so best to go direct to the source).

Another tip for your crew - get them to write down everything they feed you/send out with you and monitor what comes back uneaten because you will probably get your estimates of what you have consumed wrong.

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Oh yes - Scher remembers The Book. I had a notebook in which I or my crew wrote down everything I ate (with estimated calories), water refills including when I added electrolytes, when I used the washroom, etc so memory was not required to be accurate as hours turned into days; it was all easily referenced. This book can also contain a list of stuff for crew to ask about (see point 5 above) and list of foods to offer (point 4 above).

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Reading this thread (and listening to ultra podcasts I have enjoyed and pimped here & there too much already), I realize my biggest obstacle to becoming even an entry-level/one-and-done ultra-runner

I have no friends IRL, certainly none that I’d trust/entrust with the items @mistressk and @Scheherazade have bulleted out, above

LOL, and thanks

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I’d crew ya, Randy!

I actually realized something while I was out running today - @erbrown , I’m going to guess with the experience you listed that you haven’t done a lot of trail running in the dark. That needs to change, asap. You have to sort out what light you need (and more is ALWAYS better, because the closer it looks to daylight the less your brain will want to sleep), and get comfortable moving over rough terrain in the night - even better if you can experience it while fatigued. I’d suggest that at least once in the next few months, leave work on Friday (or whatever your last workday is before a day off) and then go out on trails for a few hours in the night. The next day can be a long hike instead of a long run.

You may want to look into a waist light (UltraSpire’s Lumen series is good - I have one of their early editions) as well as a headlamp: having the light come from the vicinity of your eyes often eliminates visible shadows that will allow you to see texture. Having a secondary light source at a different angle makes it much easier to spot that dirt-coloured root you’re about to trip over, and it also means you’re not totally screwed if one of your light sources fails (like you take your hat off without remembering you have a headlamp on it, and it meets the ground hard enough to disable it).

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I’m loving all the tips/tricks/random thoughts! A lot of things I’ve thought of, and even more I hadn’t even considered. I’ve been apprehensive doing any night running now due to ice/snow and the fact that my run is much more likely to be hot than snowy. The last thing I want is a silly injury in January to mess up my whole season.

@RandMart , we’re in the same boat regarding IRL friends! I’m pulling a couple together that I think will enjoy (figuratively) beating me over the head to keep me going, but it’s not easy finding people that fit the whole bill.

I’ve definitely been digging into more Ultra podcasts. As runs get longer I need something to keep my brain occupied and due to the aforementioned lack of IRL friends it probably won’t be a person, haha. I’ve been listening to Everyday Ultra, Distance to Empty, just picked up Ten Junk Miles (seems like an excellent addition), and will put some of the other reccomendations in the cue. I’ve been trying to listen to SWAP, but I currently fit into his “not for me” camp. I generally like him and what he presents, and I can watch his YT videos but listening to his pod is a bit much for me; but I’m going to keep trying.

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Buy a set of these and go forth.

I honestly love running at night with snow - I can usually get away without a headlamp if there’s low cloud cover, and it’s just the most transporting experience…

Glad to hear that!!! A few listens, and you’ll be tuning in on the regular - I recommend the Gang Shows to get acquainted with the “team”

:black_heart::black_heart::black_heart::black_heart:

As I’ve heard on many podcasts, the best way to see if 100+ milers are for you is to crew one first

I was prepared to do just that for the hubs of a friend of mine in DE, then he decided he wasn’t doing them anymore :face_with_diagonal_mouth:

To be fair, their kinds a supremely talented track & XC runners, so maybe the family is dropping WAY DOWN in distance :sunglasses: