Getting ready for IM Coz. Just finished my last long run and damned if I didnt lose a solid 5 pounds of fluids. My body weight is 174. Finished at 169. Air temp was 30 degrees the entire run, it was flat with no wind. I had two Gus, and 4 6OZ flasks with two Nuuns divided up in the flasks and 1200mg of salt total. I was spent when finished but probably had another 10K in me before I collapsed. Just want to compare to what others would do with this run.
You had 24 oz of fluid and roughly 200 calories for a 20 mile training run? Is that your planned nutrition for the marathon? I’ll assume that was at least 2-2:30 hours which would be less than 100 calories and 12 oz of fluid per hour.
For reference, I’m generally around 200ish calories and 16-18 oz of fluid per hour.
Edited to add: I came to those numbers by testing in training.
I drink a flask every 20min. You don’t need the nuuns. Your body has plenty of sodium to get you through a 2.5 hr run no matter how much you sweat.
I drink a flask every 20min. You don’t need the nuuns. Your body has plenty of sodium to get you through a 2.5 hr run no matter how much you sweat.
Possibly for a training run, but he should be practicing exactly what he plans to do on race day. He’ll certainly need additional electrolytes during the marathon at IM Cozumel.
I drink a flask every 20min. You don’t need the nuuns. Your body has plenty of sodium to get you through a 2.5 hr run no matter how much you sweat.
For a stand-alone run: yes.
On race day: no.
Electrolyte replacement should be part of your race day plan, and race day is the wrong time to figure that out. With a race nearing on the horizon, now would be a bad time to impose any undue stress on your system via bad nutrition.
Depending on temperatures, 2-4 oz of water/mile.
How logn did it take you to cover the 20 miles? Sure seems low to me. I would have taken in at least twice that much in running 20 miles. During a 10K training run yesterday I took in just shy of 20 oz (although it was a trail run in steep terrain and it was also 75 degrees).
I use the nuun tablets for the sweet taste from time to time (1/2 a tablet in 20 oz bottles) for flavor but have experimented with not using very many electrolytes at all in my training this year with no negative repercussions. Not a single cramp in over 1000 miles of running trails since July.
Check out this information for a little insight into why I am testing out this theory.
http://hw.libsyn.com/...d=&l_mid=2223190
http://sweatscience.com/…-noakes-vs-gatorade/
Have a great race at IMCoz.
Dave
depends on the temperature. long runs are pretty hard on the body and theres no reason not to take in calories. so id aim for about 2 cups of gatorade or the like per hour or 1-2 gels/hr
.
long runs are a great time to practice race day nutrition, i cant tell you how many runners complain about GI distress but brag they can go 18-20miles without anything.
Air temp was 30 degrees the entire run,
C or F?
solid 5 pounds of fluids
That’s kinda funny 
do you have pace and HR and elvation data during your run. How long did it take you to recover?
seems like too few calories and liquids.
At least a fifth and a couple of 40s.
Don’t listen to these guys… The right amount is always the amount that allows you to recover the quickest and never miss a workout the next day, showing up sharp and fresh and ready to train
That is probably ok for a trg run but it depends on your build and sweat rate(temperature dependent). For a 30+km trg run (ie ~19miles) and temperature less than 15C I normally plan on an 8oz flask with water and a Gu already disolved inside every 30 minutes or 8km. So I take in about 200 Calories an hour. As the temperature increases I have to increase liquid and calorie intake. For a marathon or the run in an Ironman my fluid intake goes up a little bit as does my Calorie intake.
This point of Na+ supplementation has been addressed multiple times on this forum. Most studies do not seem to support it. I am unimpressed by anecdotal evidence of resurrection stories after salt during an IM or use by pros. Here is one study…
Br J Sports Med. 2006 Mar;40(3):255-9.
Sodium supplementation is not required to maintain serum sodium concentrations during an Ironman triathlon.
Hew-Butler TD, Sharwood K, Collins M, Speedy D, Noakes T.
University of Cape Town, Newlands, Cape Town, South Africa. thew@sports.uct.ac.za
Abstract
CONTEXT: Critical assessment of recommendations that athletes consume additional sodium during athletic events.
OBJECTIVE: To evaluate if sodium supplementation is necessary to maintain serum sodium concentrations during prolonged endurance activity and prevent the development of hyponatraemia. DESIGN: Prospective randomised trial of athletes receiving sodium (620 mg table salt), placebo (596 mg starch), or no supplementation during a triathlon. The sodium and placebo tablets were taken ad libitum, with the suggested range of 1-4 per hour.
SETTING: The 2001 Cape Town Ironman triathlon (3.8 km swim, 180 km cycle, 42.2 km run).
SUBJECTS: A total of 413 triathletes completing the Ironman race.
MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Sodium supplementation was not necessary to maintain serum sodium concentrations in athletes completing an Ironman triathlon nor required to prevent hyponatraemia from occurring in athletes who did not ingest supplemental sodium during the race.
RESULTS: Subjects in the sodium supplementation group ingested an additional 3.6 (2.0) g (156 (88) mmol) sodium during the race (all values are mean (SD)). There were no significant differences between the sodium, placebo, and no supplementation groups with regard to age, finishing time, serum sodium concentration before and after the race, weight before the race, weight change during the r
ace, and rectal temperature, systolic and diastolic blood pressure after the race. The sodium supplementation group consumed 14.7 (8.3) tablets, and the placebo group took 15.8 (10.1) tablets (p = 0.55; NS).
CONCLUSIONS: Ad libitum sodium supplementation was not necessary to preserve serum sodium concentrations in athletes competing for about 12 hours in an Ironman triathlon. The Institute of Medicine’s recommended daily adequate intake of sodium (1.5 g/65 mmol) seems sufficient for a healthy person without further need to supplement during athletic activity.
At least a fifth and a couple of 40s.
and i thought this thread was gonna be a waste
cheers
I went to the ER after my last HIM with hyponatremia. If you sweat enough your sodium levels will eventually drop. I am 100% certain to finish IM Cozumel I would need to take a bunch of Nuum etc. I have a hard time believe there is no evidence to support this.
Did you consider that you simply took in too much fluid before and during the race? The best evidence shows people suffer from hyponatremia from diluting the sodium they have, not running out of total body sodium. In the IM med tent we see far more cases of hyponatremia in the MOP/BOP because they had so many more hours to over hydrate while walking/shuffling the marathon.
The requisite degree of hydration that would prevent sodium dilution would coincidentally produce severe dehydration. Pick your poison. In either event, the outcome isn’t favorable.
After a run that long, I normally can’t hold all that much alcohol. It depends on what I drink but normally 6-8 beers and I’m toasted. If it is a high gravity beer you can take that number down a little further.
Jeff, 5lbs of fluid loss is fine. It’s actually what I target. This because 5lbs at your size won’t result in decreased performance and hydrating more than necessary can sometimes be detrimental. (if for no other reason than it’s inconvenient and slows you down)
For a 20mile training run in cool weather, you don’t need any fluid (as long as weight loss is kept below 5lbs) and certainly not nutrition. It can be beneficial to train without carbohydrate supplementation to facilitate metabolizing more fat stores.
But I’m not sure if you were talking about training or racing. Since many training sessions are dry-runs for racing, you’d want to be practicing race nutrition. Plus, your cozumel race will have a higher sweat rate than you experienced here. So you would obviously need more fluids, perhaps 2x. And in an IM, you need about 200-250 cals an hour.