https://www.12news.com/...c0-a00e-fc5ca4020b86
I just saw that on the news. Horrible. The driver stayed and is cooperating, which gives me hope that this wasn’t a targeted act, but I guess we’ll learn more as this story unfolds. Condolences to the family of those lost, and I hope those that were injured recover quickly and completely.
Anyone read the Code of Hammurabi? I’m starting to wonder if the ancient laws of justice might have their place in the modern world…
https://www.12news.com/...c0-a00e-fc5ca4020b86
tragic. cycling outside on roads that aren’t closed scares the bejeezus outta me.
We have now reached the point where “it wasn’t a targeted act” is a legitimate comment of hope and optimism. 13 people mowed down and a normal compassionate reaction is now “Well, at least it seems like he didn’t mean to do it.” Sometimes I’m glad that I’m old and headed for the exit - I don’t think I want to see the rest of this movie.
i used to ride and train there. so sad. and it really reinforce why so many of us have move to gravel riding instead of the road…
I was riding North, the opposite way of the group, about 40 minutes before this happened. I know one of the injured and I had met the woman who passed away about 7 years ago. My dad use to drive out and ride with both of them years ago. I never rode with the group, im a solo rider, group rides are not my thing, but I would typically see them as I was finishing up my ride on Saturdays in that area. The bridge has an arc to it and im assuming the driver wasn’t paying attention and the shoulder is only wide enough for two riders side-by-side, when id see the group the were fully in the right lane and I’m going to assume when the driver came over the arc of the bridge, wasn’t paying attention and impacted the group.
Just a side note, I hated seeing them ride that direction on that road. If you look on google maps its a long hilly stretch so at parts visibility is shit when you come to the top of the little uphills, drivers cant see whats over the hill and they haul ass, typically going 50-60mph and shortly after the bridge you lose the shoulder and it necks down to a single lane north and south. Heading north (which is down hilll) you have a huge shoulder the full length of the road and its just a safer route to take.
We have now reached the point where “it wasn’t a targeted act” is a legitimate comment of hope and optimism. 13 people mowed down and a normal compassionate reaction is now “Well, at least it seems like he didn’t mean to do it.” Sometimes I’m glad that I’m old and headed for the exit - I don’t think I want to see the rest of this movie.
Horrible, terrible tragic stuff.
- Press/Police still using neutral, vague or confusing language to talk about incidents like this “A pick up truck struck a group of cyclists”? It was one of the new autonomous drive vehicles? There was NO driver? The correct language is “A driver struck a group of cyclists - 2 cyclists are confirmed dead and 11 seriously injured”
- That it was not a targeted or intentional is inserted into the story - why? Is this meant to make us feel better? We don’t know what happened exactly, buy statistically with well over 70% of these collisions caused by driver negligence or error of some kind, there is a VERY good chance that that is the case. But somehow we are made to feel that, that is OK? It’s typical now with incidents like this, shoulder shrugs and on we go . . because . . drivers and driving!
- Going on from #2 - about 46,000 people in the U.S. die every year in various car crashes and collisions. Add in about 6,000 pedestrians killed and 1000 cyclists to this list! So well over 50,000 people die on roads in the U.S. each year. If 50,000 people died from anything else in a year - would it just be shoulder shrugs and on we go?
I was riding North, the opposite way of the group, about 40 minutes before this happened. I know one of the injured and I had met the woman who passed away about 7 years ago. My dad use to drive out and ride with both of them years ago. I never rode with the group, im a solo rider, group rides are not my thing, but I would typically see them as I was finishing up my ride on Saturdays in that area. The bridge has an arc to it and im assuming the driver wasn’t paying attention and the shoulder is only wide enough for two riders side-by-side, when id see the group the were fully in the right lane and I’m going to assume when the driver came over the arc of the bridge, wasn’t paying attention and impacted the group.
Just a side note, I hated seeing them ride that direction on that road. If you look on google maps its a long hilly stretch so at parts visibility is shit when you come to the top of the little uphills, drivers cant see whats over the hill and they haul ass, typically going 50-60mph and shortly after the bridge you lose the shoulder and it necks down to a single lane north and south. Heading north (which is down hilll) you have a huge shoulder the full length of the road and its just a safer route to take.
Perdro Gomes had said in a post the driver had overtaken the C group and ran into the B group, I assume he ran into the back of them. Perhaps after safely overtaking that first group he stopped paying attention, slotted back in and then the collision occurred. I’ve never ridden out in the west valley, but based on your description of that road and bridge, that seems to make sense as to how it happened.
We have now reached the point where “it wasn’t a targeted act” is a legitimate comment of hope and optimism. Thirteen people mowed down and a normal compassionate reaction is now “Well, at least it seems like he didn’t mean to do it.”
If they leave out “pick-up truck” and make the kind of vehicle ambiguous, it seems like it could’ve been an accident - someone in a Camry or Maxima most likely wouldn’t deliberately run over a group ride, as far as we know
But when they specify “pick-up truck” - drivers of which are notorious for purposely attacking riders - then you start thinking is whether it was pre-meditated, and they have to add “it wasn’t a targeted act” for reassurance
Condolences and a moment of silence…
…
Now, #1, there are no accidents. Only incidents. There is always liability, even if shared between suspect and victims.
#2, news media garbage. The truck didn’t kill them, the driver did. Headline should be “In an incident on DATE on ROADID a “Suspect’s name” struck X cyclists, injuring X and killing Y.” The vehicle is irrelevant.
#3, for the stuff about speed limit/hills and such…time out. Let’s say instead of striking a group ride, the suspect struck a stopped accident scene and killed an officer and EMS worker and injured 3 firefighters. Plain and simple they’d probably have been arrested on the spot and had to post bail. The same veracity we pursue people for maiming officers and emergency workers we should pursue folks who kill other drivers, pedestrians, and cyclists.
#4, back to shared liability. There is some. If that’s true the speed limit is high there I tend to not like taking routes where the speed differential, by design, is too high. By design I mean folks will always speed, but when the speed limit is higher and people speed, it is worse. It’s a lot different if a group hammer ride is averaging 25mph on roads with speed limits between 35 and 45 versus a group ride that’s averaging 18mph on roads with speeds of 55mph. 45 + 10 (for speeders) - 25 = 30mph approach. 55 + 10 (for speeders) -18 = 47mph. The reaction times and stopping distances for the two scenarios, assuming distracted driver, aren’t remotely comparable. Anyone with a Varia can attest to this and you get that “panic” in your heart if you feel you must use a 55 speed limit road to get to another part of town as the Varia constantly gives the warning approach alert versus just the normal “car there, but sees you”.
#5, I’d love more cars come standard with forward accident prevention braking
We have now reached the point where “it wasn’t a targeted act” is a legitimate comment of hope and optimism. 13 people mowed down and a normal compassionate reaction is now “Well, at least it seems like he didn’t mean to do it.” Sometimes I’m glad that I’m old and headed for the exit - I don’t think I want to see the rest of this movie.
I wasn’t saying it’s okay the accident happened because it’s not a targeted act. I’m only saying it doesn’t appear to be another car v. bike crime that has been happening so much. There’s hope that it wasn’t intentional.
#4, back to shared liability. There is some. If that’s true the speed limit is high there I tend to not like taking routes where the speed differential, by design, is too high. By design I mean folks will always speed, but when the speed limit is higher and people speed, it is worse. It’s a lot different if a group hammer ride is averaging 25mph on roads with speed limits between 35 and 45 versus a group ride that’s averaging 18mph on roads with speeds of 55mph. 45 + 10 (for speeders) - 25 = 30mph approach. 55 + 10 (for speeders) -18 = 47mph. The reaction times and stopping distances for the two scenarios, assuming distracted driver, aren’t remotely comparable. Anyone with a Varia can attest to this and you get that “panic” in your heart if you feel you must use a 55 speed limit road to get to another part of town as the Varia constantly gives the warning approach alert versus just the normal “car there, but sees you”.
My parents always told me ‘you can be right and still end up dead’. I don’t know the specific criminally, and given the leniency towards drivers in the US I wouldn’t be surprised by anything. But the cyclist needs to assume that drivers are not paying attention to the road. It doesn’t matter that it’s the driver’s legal. moral, and ethical obligation to not run over other humans with their vehicle, especially when there’s something as important as TikTok that needs viewed.
Condolences and a moment of silence…
#3, for the stuff about speed limit/hills and such…time out. Let’s say instead of striking a group ride, the suspect struck a stopped accident scene and killed an officer and EMS worker and injured 3 firefighters. Plain and simple they’d probably have been arrested on the spot and had to post bail. The same veracity we pursue people for maiming officers and emergency workers we should pursue folks who kill other drivers, pedestrians, and cyclists.
The responding troopers were outside of the three vehicles that were struck and were unhurt, but an EMT inside the Allamuchy-Green First Aid Squad ambulance reported a minor injury, according to state police.
The driver of the tow truck, which was towing a refrigerated box truck, was unhurt, authorities said. He was issued a summons for careless driving.
We have now reached the point where “it wasn’t a targeted act” is a legitimate comment of hope and optimism. 13 people mowed down and a normal compassionate reaction is now “Well, at least it seems like he didn’t mean to do it.” Sometimes I’m glad that I’m old and headed for the exit - I don’t think I want to see the rest of this movie.
I wasn’t saying it’s okay the accident happened because it’s not a targeted act. I’m only saying it doesn’t appear to be another car v. bike crime that has been happening so much. There’s hope that it wasn’t intentional.
Intentional or not it is still a crime. The driver was probably going significantly over the speed level, as most drivers do in Phoenix, and could not slow in time as he came over the bridge and saw the cyclists.
#4, back to shared liability. There is some. If that’s true the speed limit is high there I tend to not like taking routes where the speed differential, by design, is too high. By design I mean folks will always speed, but when the speed limit is higher and people speed, it is worse. It’s a lot different if a group hammer ride is averaging 25mph on roads with speed limits between 35 and 45 versus a group ride that’s averaging 18mph on roads with speeds of 55mph. 45 + 10 (for speeders) - 25 = 30mph approach. 55 + 10 (for speeders) -18 = 47mph. The reaction times and stopping distances for the two scenarios, assuming distracted driver, aren’t remotely comparable. Anyone with a Varia can attest to this and you get that “panic” in your heart if you feel you must use a 55 speed limit road to get to another part of town as the Varia constantly gives the warning approach alert versus just the normal “car there, but sees you”.
My parents always told me ‘you can be right and still end up dead’. I don’t know the specific criminally, and given the leniency towards drivers in the US I wouldn’t be surprised by anything. But the cyclist needs to assume that drivers are not paying attention to the road. It doesn’t matter that it’s the driver’s legal. moral, and ethical obligation to not run over other humans with their vehicle, especially when there’s something as important as TikTok that needs viewed.
I mean, I absolutely love my Varia. Even still, it isn’t a blank check to ride like cars don’t exist. Opposite, it makes you aware of all kinds of things you took for granted before. You can easily tell the difference on a high speed limit vs low speed limit road how the radar reacts with the notifications. Slow speed limit road? Just the little soft initial “beep” and you see the slowly approaching car. Usually it slows (aka, it saw you and plans to pass) then it comes around. Fast roads? The emergency alert goes off for almost every car that goes past.
I try to make an obvious move so you don’t get the sideswipe “cheat pass” with oncoming traffic only IF the car clearly saw you and is waiting, then make an super obvious move to the right and give a thankyou wave as they pass.
I wish the Varia could get a laser update that somehow upon detection gives you a “green, orange, red” color change based on lane position behind you of the coming vehicle so you can decide to bail or not.
I also wonder sometimes the “money” times of day and days of week to ride for the combo of visibility, low traffic, and less likely to be drunk. Oddly, church going time can be a bad time to ride if near a big church. Asshole parishioners mowing you down and honking to get to church faster (then turns into the church 100 yards later).
Hello burnthesheep and All,
AEB is coming standard in more cars …
Hello burnthesheep and All,
AEB is coming standard in more cars …
https://www.consumerreports.org/…-models-a2486269627/
This is good news, the sooner we decrease the interaction between the distracted/drunk/high/inept driver, it will be safer for all users of the roads.
Really hoping the driverless car some sooner than later.
i used to ride and train there. so sad. and it really reinforce why so many of us have move to gravel riding instead of the road…
Gravel and online. The latter definitely being far less fun. But I can’t help thinking that if I got hit and killed now my kids would barely remember me by the time they get to be teenagers. So, I take the boredom.
Going off road cannot be the solution. We need transportation justice. Roads should be safe for all users, not those who can afford to use them. As for radar tech, I feel it’s making drivers lazy, as the radar may fail. The solution is very stiff penalties, such as in northern European countries.