Hello,
I just noticed some brands are promoting the 1:0.8 carb mix.
They say the 5:4 (1:0.8) is better than the 2:1 mix.
Anyone any experience with these newer gels? (sis, maurten,…).
Can’t find specific objective articles about it online.
Regards.
there are some articles if you search pubmed:
O’Brien WJ, Rowlands DS. Fructose-maltodextrin ratio in a carbohydrate-electrolyte solution differentially affects exogenous carbohydrate oxidation rate, gut comfort, and performance. Am J Physiol Gastrointest Liver Physiol. 2011 Jan;300(1):G181-9. doi: 10.1152/ajpgi.00419.2010. Epub 2010 Nov 11. PMID: 21071509.
they found the ratio of 0.8 seemed best tolerated. From the abstract:" At high carbohydrate-ingestion rate, greater benefits to endurance performance may result from ingestion of 0.8- to 1.25-Ratio fructose-maltodextrin solutions. Small perceptible improvements in gut comfort favor the 0.8-Ratio and provide a clearer suggestion of mechanism than the relationship with exogenous carbohydrate oxidation."
there are others one can look at as well you can see on this link: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21071509/
So it does appear there is some moderate (certainly not what I would call strong) support for 0.8 ratio.
From this paper you can certainly go on down the rabbit hole to see the effects of fructose to maltodextrin ratio on performance.
ive only tried SIS. I think they are easier to go down / don’t need water, and I can eat more of them
Is that ratio molar or mass?
When it comes to digestion, how does 1:1 ratio in the form of sucrose compare to the same ratio in the form of fructose + malto?
Is that ratio molar or mass?
When it comes to digestion, how does 1:1 ratio in the form of sucrose compare to the same ratio in the form of fructose + malto?
in the research and most places it is mas ratio, molar ratio only matters for osmotic pressure.
Gotcha. Osmotic pressure is why I ask about the two options. To get 20 moles of fructose and glucose you could take 20mol sucrose or 20mol fructose and 2mol malto (if the chain is 10 units long). So from an osmosis standpoint, there isn’t a huge difference. Is one easier to absorb than the other?
Hello,
I just noticed some brands are promoting the 1:0.8 carb mix.
They say the 5:4 (1:0.8) is better than the 2:1 mix.
Anyone any experience with these newer gels? (sis, maurten,…).
Can’t find specific objective articles about it online.
Regards.
I had a box of the older 2:1 SIS Beta Fuel packets, found that I had issues with digestion if the mix had gotten warm before consuming. Bought some straight fructose on Amazon and figured out how much to add to convert it to the 1:0.8 ratio, and even though the overall calorie content per bottle went up a bit, no gut problems at all. I’ve since bought some of the newer Beta Fuel and have had no issues whatsoever, even with supplementing a bottle per hour with either a gel or the Beta Chews.
I’m a big fan. Full disclosure: I only use it on mega-intensity days or race day. Too expensive for everyday use.
Gotcha. Osmotic pressure is why I ask about the two options. To get 20 moles of fructose and glucose you could take 20mol sucrose or 20mol fructose and 2mol malto (if the chain is 10 units long). So from an osmosis standpoint, there isn’t a huge difference. Is one easier to absorb than the other?according to a review by Jeukendrup he states that as far as absorbtion goes glucose and maltodextrin are the same.“maltodextrin is a glucose polymer with little sweetness that is very rapidly digested and therefore behaves identical to glucose” source: A Step Towards Personalized Sports Nutrition: Carbohydrate Intake During Exercise Asker Jeukendrup Sports Med (2014) 44 (Suppl 1):S25–S33. So if they are the same as far as absorption goes then the malto is fewer moles (molecules) for same mass, then malto it is as far as I am concerned, with a side benefit of lower sweetness. It does seem that the mass ratio of 0.8:1 is the general guide at this time.
Hello,
I just noticed some brands are promoting the 1:0.8 carb mix.
They say the 5:4 (1:0.8) is better than the 2:1 mix.
Anyone any experience with these newer gels? (sis, maurten,…).
Can’t find specific objective articles about it online.
Regards.
Yes. Add salt and water to all of them. 1:0.8 (ie. 5:4) is likely better than 2:1 for a lot of folks. But the ratios are arbitrarily narrow.
Better guidance: somewhere between 2:1 and 1:1 is likely optimal. The higher carbs per hour you’re doing, the farther it probably moves towards 1:1 for optimality.
Osmolarity matters less than carb concentration which matters less than glucose:fructose ratio, which matters less than hourly intake rates.
My app will probably have better answers as to what is optimal population wide, in the next couple years. (It’s a fuel coach in your pocket but will also collect user data and I may do some aggregate analysis of the data to make better recommendations).
Osmolarity matters less than carb concentration which matters less than glucose:fructose ratio, which matters less than hourly intake rates.
Matters less in what way? Ease of absorption (GI issues)? Just making sure we are talking about the same thing.
If we fix 1:1 ratio and are trying to max hourly rate, then the only two variables left are osmolarity and concentration. I drink as much water after taking in carbs as I can tolerate. That leaves just osmolarity.
The past weekend I took in 2200 calories of sugar over a 4.5 hour hard bike effort (plus about 300 cal of bars 30 minutes prior) and started feeling funny in the gut towards the end, so I’m wondering whether fructose:malto has properties (including osmolarity) that would be able to push the max carb rate up.
Osmolarity matters less than carb concentration which matters less than glucose:fructose ratio, which matters less than hourly intake rates.
Matters less in what way? Ease of absorption (GI issues)? Just making sure we are talking about the same thing.Great question. Yes. In reference to avoidance of GI issues, and ability to perform.
If we fix 1:1 ratio and are trying to max hourly rate, then the only two variables left are osmolarity and concentration. I drink as much water after taking in carbs as I can tolerate. That leaves just osmolarity.
The past weekend I took in 2200 calories of sugar over a 4.5 hour hard bike effort (plus about 300 cal of bars 30 minutes prior) and started feeling funny in the gut towards the end, so I’m wondering whether fructose:malto has properties (including osmolarity) that would be able to push the max carb rate up.
Maybe. But also just might need better hydration maintenance. If sweating enough to lose body weight and not keep up with water and sodium replacement, gut function decreases. No osmolarity fixes will help in that case. Worth a shot though!
I’ve also only tried SIS. I believe they are simpler to digest/do not require water, and I can eat more of them.
Hello,
I just noticed some brands are promoting the 1:0.8 carb mix.
They say the 5:4 (1:0.8) is better than the 2:1 mix.
Anyone any experience with these newer gels? (sis, maurten,…).
Can’t find specific objective articles about it online.
Regards.
This video is on a paper that does 120g per hour at 1:0.8 versus 90g/hr @ 2:1 glucose:fructose. Warning, it’s long and nerdy.
VIDEO (I can’t figure out how to embed to play on this page!)
TLDW: Moving the ratio closer to 1:1 is likely great for very high-carb fueling situations.
Thanks for the video! Going to watch it now.
Also, the link you posted didn’t work. I had to delete the https:// for it to work.
Here is the video:
https://youtu.be/H1oaQf88Bi4
👊 thank you!