18min 5k possible on 12mpw?

Triathlon Forum
1

I’ve been a cyclist for about 20 months now and have had great gains with fitness for the little time invested. Body fat somewhere around 7%, FTP around 270w, 158lbs. I’m wanting to add running into the fold and try a duathlon, but I can’t see myself committing more than 2.5 hours a week to running, while leaving my cycling at its normal 5-7 hours a week.

I went out for my first run in probably 6 months and did 5k at what felt like a half marathon pace…time was 24minutes. If I pushed hard, I think 21:30 would be where I’m at right now. 6 months ago I randomly went out and ran 13.1 miles on my own, and it was 1:59. Pretty stupid to do that, and I was hurting for a couple days, but nonetheless that’s probably my current state of running without any training.

The question is, how likely is it that I’m going to see decent improvements with a modest time investment? I feel like if I’ve gotta put in more than 2.5 hours a week to see some real good gains in the near future I may just skip running/du/triathlons altogether and just keep cycling. I know at least in cycling there’s that newbie period where you make massive gains in power, and I suppose I’m kinda hoping the same thing exists with running.

2

its very possible to run 18:00 on zero mpw
.

3

Very few persons can break a 20 min 5K, as simple as it seems. To get to an 18 min 5K (effectively 6 min miles), you’d have to build using a structured training plan that includes doing track workouts, recovery, periodization etc. It’s not so much the 2.5 hrs pw that will be an issue for you, it will be more about structuring your running program.

The magic threshold numbers in running, to me at least, are 18 min 5K, 40 min 10K, 1:30 half mary, 3:00 marathon. Anyone who breaks these knows how hard they worked to get there. A lot of persons may chime in by telling you how easy it was for them to break these numbers, and that may be true for them, but it is not true for the average population or athlete.

4

There are so many a*hols in this forum that does not help anything in some post (guy thst make 1st comment)
For yr question, I believe that people from www.letsrun.com can help you much more. There are really fast guys, not only bla bla bla about Lance and Ironman.

5

The magic threshold numbers in running, to me at least, are 18 min 5K, 40 min 10K, 1:30 half mary, 3:00 marathon.

Those are almost exactly the numbers I feel I’d be happy with, and would be on-par with my cycling. Shaving a minute off of each mile does seem daunting, but so did adding 70 watts while losing 5kg.

I’m 100% ok with structure, and at least half of my cycling is very structured using a power meter, WKO+, and various training ideas from books (but mostly 2x20’s). I bought a running book, but it was sounding like 30-50mpw is what it wanted, and I simply can’t/don’t want to spend that kinda time on running.

6

The magic threshold numbers in running, to me at least, are 18 min 5K, 40 min 10K, 1:30 half mary, 3:00 marathon. Anyone who breaks these knows how hard they worked to get there. A lot of persons may chime in by telling you how easy it was for them to break these numbers, and that may be true for them, but it is not true for the average population or athlete.

18 min 5k is flying in my opinion (I can’t do it). 19 is a LOT of work. Below the 6:30 pace, seconds seem very hard to find - at least for this middle aged guy…

7

If you could run 18 min for 5k it wouldn’t take you very long to know. That said, you can build a fine running program on 2-2.5 hours a week,

8

With your run, cycling and swimming training being written correctly it is very possible. I know individuals who have had to not run for 5+ weeks but just swam and biked and come back near their former shape. Running is mostly aerobic anyways.

9

There are so many a*hols in this forum that does not help anything in some post (guy thst make 1st comment)
For yr question, I believe that people from http://www.letsrun.com can help you much more. There are really fast guys, not only bla bla bla about Lance and Ironman.

no need to call me an asshole. his question was if it was possible on 12mpw, and i said yes it is even possible on zero mpw.

interestingly ive found that swim shape seems to cross over to running fairly well. running a 5k is short enough to where the pounding/wear and tear factor doesn’t matter.

cycling works slightly different leg muscles than running but if the OP is in fairly good cycling shape he should be able to run pretty well on minimal mileage.

10

I think you’d have a hard time doing an 18min. 5k on 12mpw. That being said, a lot of guys can do it, but they likely have a running background and have put the hard work in at some point in their life.

I didn’t run for 9 months last year, and slowly built up to 40mpw, and could run sub 18 within 2 months. That being said, I’ve done a lot of miles in previous years (now a cyclist only - I only ran to lose weight over the winter). I’m not sure if I could have run an 18min. 5 k on only 12 mpw though…

11

From age 25 to 40ish I ran five miles hard, three times a week and could consistently (and barely) break 18 minutes. I did not run in HS or college and weighed about 180 lbs at the time. Not the best or smartest way to train but I was young and dumb. I am now 52 and run slower and everyday and suffer fewer injuries than I did at 35. Speed kills.

12

Without knowing if this is some troll post or you’re secretly some former HS cross-country guy, I would say no to a sub 19:00 5k on 12 miles per week. However, if you commit to 5-6 runs per week with one tempo run, one marathon pace run and one long run you’ll have a chance.

You could start with something like this and add mileage as you improve:

Monday: No run
Tuesday: 7 mile marathon pace run
Wednesday: 4 mile easy run
Thursday: 7 Mile Tempo run (2 x 2 miles hard, building more sets and miles over time)
Friday: 4 mile easy run
Saturday: 10 mile long run
Sunday: 4 miles easy, if you want.

You’re already a cyclist, you can handle this volume.

13

I’ve been a cyclist for about 20 months now and have had great gains with fitness for the little time invested. Body fat somewhere around 7%, FTP around 270w, 158lbs. I’m wanting to add running into the fold and try a duathlon, but I can’t see myself committing more than 2.5 hours a week to running, while leaving my cycling at its normal 5-7 hours a week.

I went out for my first run in probably 6 months and did 5k at what felt like a half marathon pace…time was 24minutes. If I pushed hard, I think 21:30 would be where I’m at right now. 6 months ago I randomly went out and ran 13.1 miles on my own, and it was 1:59. Pretty stupid to do that, and I was hurting for a couple days, but nonetheless that’s probably my current state of running without any training.

The question is, how likely is it that I’m going to see decent improvements with a modest time investment? I feel like if I’ve gotta put in more than 2.5 hours a week to see some real good gains in the near future I may just skip running/du/triathlons altogether and just keep cycling. I know at least in cycling there’s that newbie period where you make massive gains in power, and I suppose I’m kinda hoping the same thing exists with running.

Not trying to be a downer here, but your possibility of doing this is zero. I say this with 100% certainty.

I am lighter than you, have a higher bike FTP by a few watts (I’m around 275-280), and even when I committed 10-11 hrs to week for pure run training as a pure runner for years, I could not go sub-18. My ‘low mileage’ 5k PRs were between 20-21 min on <25mpw, and if I went up to 35mpw, I was in the 19:30-20:00 range. At 70+mpw (which is a lot of running), I was down to 18:30-18:45, but that’s clearly very high mileage.

I also have never run a half marathon training run in slower than 9min/mile. Running a 2hr half marathon training run is ridiculously slow for me, so if it feels fast to you already, you definitely don’t have the natural talent to be a natural low-mileage fast speedster (I definitely don’t.)

The bummer is that while cycling has good cardio benefits for running, at 18:xx (heck, even at sub 20), the neuromuscular limitations are big, meaning that if you don’t run, it doesn’t matter how good your FTP and aerobic engine is - you won’t be able to keep it up or turn your legs over fast enough. That big cardio engine/FTP is great to facilitate big volume run work, but if you’re skipping the big volume, you won’t be able to tap into that strength.

I’d say forget about 18:xx but focus on how much you can improve - I guarantee you’ll be thrilled with any improvements after some hard speedwork, regardless of the actual time. I’m nowhere near as fast as I was now than I was when I was a pure marathon runner, but I had more fun and satisfaction banging out a lo-training mileage (<25mpw) mid-19 5k this past weekend than I did with any of my high-mileage sub-19 ones where I KNEW I could go that fast since I was training so hard.

14

Three runs, each 3 miles, ran at 6:15 pace.
One track session, lots of intervals. 400’s in 1:25, 800’s in 2:50, maybe miles at 5:45ish pace.

Bam. 18-minute 5K on 12MPW.

*edited to add that I don’t think your fitness is at this level yet. But give it some time… Good luck!

15

Thanks for the responses so far, it sounds like it’s possible (or at least ~19min 5k is) and I think I’ll give it a shot. It’s not about handling the volume, it’s about prioritizing the time I have to exercise. Cycling is what I enjoy most and want to continue to make gains there, but I’m willing and able devote 2-3 hours a week running if that’ll be enough to make a real difference. No troll here, just a slow runner. I don’t want to be out there running 5 times a week, it’s just not going to happen anytime in the next year. 3 runs a week with a random long run every 2-3 weeks is about what I can afford.

Would anybody recommend “Time Crunched Triathlete” for my needs? I used Time Crunched Cyclist a few times last year during my structured cycling training and was pleased.

16

Thanks for the responses so far, it sounds like it’s possible (or at least ~19min 5k is) and I think I’ll give it a shot. It’s not about handling the volume, it’s about prioritizing the time I have to exercise. Cycling is what I enjoy most and want to continue to make gains there, but I’m willing and able devote 2-3 hours a week running if that’ll be enough to make a real difference. No troll here, just a slow runner. I don’t want to be out there running 5 times a week, it’s just not going to happen anytime in the next year. 3 runs a week with a random long run every 2-3 weeks is about what I can afford.

Would anybody recommend “Time Crunched Triathlete” for my needs? I used Time Crunched Cyclist a few times last year during my structured cycling training and was pleased.

If you want to go fast for a short distance take your 2 1/2 hours and run every day.

3 runs for 45 minutes (2 1/4 hours) is not a fast 5k plan. 20 minutes, 6 or 7 days a week is a much better plan for the same 2 1/4 hours.

Run often and run fast.

Good luck.

17

Not trying to be a downer here, but your possibility of doing this is zero. I say this with 100% certainty.

…

I’d say forget about 18:xx but focus on how much you can improve - I guarantee you’ll be thrilled with any improvements after some hard speedwork, regardless of the actual time. I’m nowhere near as fast as I was now than I was when I was a pure marathon runner, but I had more fun and satisfaction banging out a lo-training mileage (<25mpw) mid-19 5k this past weekend than I did with any of my high-mileage sub-19 ones where I KNEW I could go that fast since I was training so hard.

Cheers for the detailed response. I know I aimed high, and part of that was just to see how crazy the idea really was. I have no idea if I have any natural running talent, but I suppose my main goal is to be solid middle of the pack on a duathlon and figured I wouldn’t be entering the realm where good genetics came into play. I’ll be fine on the bike split I think, so I just need the run to be “good enough”. I figured that meant 18min 5k or 40min 10k, but I admittedly pulled those numbers out of thin air.

18

I think it’s very unlikely for you, but don’t take that as a big negative. Yes, there are people that can run sub-18 on 12 mpw. But not many. It would take either: (a) strong, previously undiscovered running talent; or (b) young kid (high schooler) with a lot of speed. It doesn’t sound like you fit either bill. Your cycling numbers are very similar to mine (my ftp is about 260 and in shape I’m 154). This fall, on 35 miles a week I was running 18:18. So similar cyling numbers, a little smaller, a lot more mileage, and I wasn’t quite there.

However, your premise is wrong. If you can devote 2.5 hours a week to running, you’ll be running a hell of a lot more than 12 mpw. Probably 18-20ish. And if you are willing to devote 40 minutes a day, 5 days a week, 25 no problem. That’s really not a lot and with your cycling volume of 5-7 that puts you at 8-10 hours a week. That’s very doable. And I don’t think 5 40 minute runs a week would hurt your cycling program too much. Running just has such a big bang for the buck that you can get a lot accomplished in a short time.

Yes, you will make big gains in running in a short time. i just think you are underestimating how fast sub 18 is for most adults. So in the end, you just need to decide if you want to run that much. If so, you can find enough time to do 25 mpw and you’ll do fine in your dus.

19

6-30 minute runs a week and slowly build up to under 18 minute 5k pace along with the biking. If your under 30 and a natural athlete it is possable. What can you do a 40k tt in?

20

Yes, it’s possible if you’re pretty well built for running and run efficiently.

I ran 17:19 off no more than 25 mpw, usually between 18-20 mpw. I attribute a lot of it to my cycling and swimming intervals, because I certainly wasn’t running like a “runner.”

My plan was basically one track workout a week, doing anything from 200s to 1200s, plus one “long” run of ~8 miles, plus maybe two more runs of 3-5 miles.

I think you could do it on one track workout of, say, 6 x 800 @ 5K pace with equal time rest, or 12 x 200 @ 1-mile race pace, with 200m jog recovery.

There’s 4-5 miles, including a short warmup and cool-down. Some weeks, do two easy runs of 4 miles each. Other times, do an easy 3-miler and a 5-mile tempo run.

That might get you there in 6-8 weeks.

Good luck!