http://www.doitsports.com/newresults3/client/111508_169284_2006.html
That kid (race No.1401) is one of the best young triathletes in the USA, but that time can not be correct.
I wonder if he was awarded 1st place.
Sergio
I heard that he has a tail, and fins instead of arms.
Seriously though…that’s an impossible time for anyone. 24s/100m?
This is the type of things that happens when all kids of the same AG do not start the race at the same time. The swim format in these kids events is sometimes confusing. Most probably he got out of the pool too soon by mistake. Too bad for the kid if he was DQF because I am pretty sure that he trained a lot for that event.
Sergio
I ride with Greg’s dad from time to time - Dean Harper, former pro, frequent AG winner at 1/2 and full IM events. From what I hear, the kid’s a fast swimmer, but not that fast. I don’t believe they chip time these events, so it was probably a typo - it would actually surprise me if he didn’t win. He certainly has genetics working in his favor.
Being as the world record is something like 1:45 (Ian Thorpe?) it’s not accurate.
And “Nats”? Almost all the kids are from Arizona!
I checked with the RD he told me that he was going to check with the timers to find out if that was a valid time.
A couple of hours later I received an e-mail from the person from Sara Lee responsible for the timing in Ironkids events. She thanked me for noticing this and told me that she corrected the error. His accurate swim time is not 0:48 but 1:51, with a finish time of 24:48.
The official Ironkids format has a 200m swim but I am not sure if they swam 200 yds instead of 200m. 1:51 is still a very impressive time. Faster than some of the swimmers that participated in the 200m freestyle at the 2004 Olympics.
Sergio
probably 200 yds in 1:51…
a 1:51 in a short course meter pool is Fast!
a 1:51 in a 50 meter long course pool is really Fast!
He is only 14. My 13 year old kid is not impressed at his cycling speed, as he is riding faster than him in tri events this year and will ride even faster when 14. He also told me that there is almost no chance at all that he will be able to swim THAT fast next year. 
Sergio
You do know that the bike time includes T1, right? And the rules require that you walk while you are in the pool complex, though you can run once you are in the parking lot. Also, the swim was 200 yards, and 1:51 is reasonable for that kid.
I did know that bike time includes T1 time and about the walking after you get out of the pool.
John, I take your word about Greg Jr’s swimming speed. If you read my first post you will see that I was aware that Greg Jr. is one of the best youth triathletes in the USA. Sergio Jr’s comment saying that “there is almost no chance at all that I will be able to swim THAT fast next year” is to be taken as a compliment to Greg’s ability. Please send our congratulations to him and his father. That timing error could have made a difference if he would have arrived to the finish line a bit more than a minute later, as it was, it made no difference. It is clear that he would have won anyways. 200 yds is 91.4% of 200 m and his swimming time did not end when he finished swimming but after he got out of the pool and he walked over the timing mat out of the pool. That swim time is still impresive.
Maybe Sergio Jr, was not impressed at his bike times, because he averaged 26.9 MPH on the bike leg of his only USTA sanctioned event and he knows he will ride faster next year at 14. He TT’s close to that speed but not on the ITU-type short aerobars he was forced to use 
He was also mad as hell that the run course was about 1 km longer than announced.
I do have to say that I am disapointed that on the only two occasions that I have checked carefully the results in a kids USAT sanctioned event, I have found in both cases an important mistake in the timing. On the first case they gave 1st place to the wrong kid. The kid himself told the organizers that he was not 1st place. They checked everything and finally awarded the right kid. In the Tempe case (a Nat. Champ.) I find it hard to believe that I was the first one to spot and report that incorrect 0:41 swim time for that 200m (now confirmed 200 yds.) swim leg.
These timing mistakes would be irrelevant in adult events, but they are not in kids events, because at least in some races, kids start in age waves and then also in TT mode. If there is a timing mistake it will be very hard to notice, because the first kid that reaches the finish line is not necessarily the 1st place kid.
Not winning because a timing mistake is no big thing to most of the kids that attend these events. But it does matter to kids like Greg Jr. and Sergio Jr. I have not asked them, but I am not so sure that they think that “Every Kid (that competes in an Ironkid) is a Winner”. They know that they will not get to be 1st place thinking that. On another case, my smaller kid always raises his hands when he reaches the finish line on a tri. He loves being a triahtlete but he cares less if he arrives in 10th place, he is happy just finishing. Sergio Jr. always shakes his head in disbelief when his little brother does that. I think that there is nothing wrong with Andres doing that. I do not mind at all if little Andres thinks that every kid is a winner, I really love that. Sergio will give me a hard face if I tell him that “Every Kid is a Winner”. I can only imagine what went through LA’s head when he finished second at the Ironkids Nat. Champ.
Best wishes,
Sergio
Do you know how timing chip systems work? Just because the splits might be off, rest assured that the start and finish times are correct, so the “winner” is the winner.
And looking at times from races in other places is useless. Conditions, courses, distances, etc. all vary enough to make a difference.
Also, don’t get too hung up on your son’s 26.9 mph speed or this kids swim speed. If I recall it was for a short bike leg (less than 10k) and the pool could have been yards. It’s easy to be fast for shorter distances.
Regardless… if you spend enough time looking at kids results you’ll see that once slow kids or kids not even in the sport come out of nowhere and destroy supposed superstars within one year of coming into triathlon. Kids are kids… they grow, change, get slower, get faster, flame out… and as such are unpredictable.
I like your posts and root for your son (probably because you remind me a lot of my dad).
but based on that last post (and last paragraph) it wouldn’t surprise me if ‘little Andre’ is the one to watch! With that mentality and some of those genes at such a young age…you’re a lucky guy with these 2 kids.
Dude 48 seconds for 200 meters or yards is a world record literally.
http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/content_pages/record.asp?recordid=51709
Men’s Swimming Short-Course Freestyle 200 m
Ian Thorpe broke the world record for swimming the men’s 200 m short-course freestyle in one minute and 41.1 seconds, in Germany, Berlin.
Do you know how timing chip systems work? Just because the splits might be off, rest assured that the start and finish times are correct, so the “winner” is the winner.
BS… His final time is longer after they corrected the times. That mistake could have affected the result.
Thanks for your kind words eganski. Yes, I am also optimistic about Andres!
Sergio
Like I said… don’t worry about times on a course… look at head-to-head to see where your son stands.
A little googling will give you what you want:
Your son raced the Belterra Tri and was beaten by Ethan Doherty who’s bike split was essentially the same as your son’s (26.9). Ethan Doherty then raced the USAT Youth Nats and got third to two 13 year olds, Luke Farkas averaging almost a mile per hour faster on the bike and finishing almost a minute quicker.
It seems to me that Lukas Verzbikas or Luke Farkas (the two 13 year olds) are who you need to keep an eye out for. Or 12 year old John Funk who’s bike split was essentially the same as Doherty.
Truthfully, though, I don’t think you should worry so much about what these kids are doing, because every year it will change. Duston Benton or Joe Unknown, for that matter, could show up next year and dust everyone.
A little more googling will show that Yasmine White raced IronKids when she was 13 and wasn’t even mid-pack. She raced it again when she was 14 and won the national championships… coming from behind on the bike to win on the run. And she beat 6-time ironkids national champion Kelse Tucker, the only person to beat Hunter Kemper’s 5 national championships. Yasmine has now been on the worlds team for the last three years.
She was a 13-year old nobody, 14-year old national champ, 15-year old at the worlds… it just goes to show that you never know…
BS… I can imagine that you already noticed that they did not modify all the data in the results page.
Ironkids Senior Boys BOYS SENIOR NATIONAL CHAMPION** **1 1401 Greg Harper 14 Walnut Creek CA 24:48 BOYS AGE GROUP: 11 - 11 1 1103 Riley Plant 11 Auburn CA 27:26 2 1105 Jeremiah Olmstead 11 Elk Grove CA 28:01 3 1102 Thomas Walsh 11 Vail CO 29:03 4 1120 Tanner Hensley 11 Gilbert AZ 32:05 5 1116 Caleb Keith 11 Carson City NV 32:47 BOYS AGE GROUP: 12 - 12 1 1202 Carlos Padilla Moran 12 Hermosillo SO 31:55 2 1139 Daniel Derflinger 12 Phoenix AZ 34:27 3 1209 Ben Mertens 12 Phoenix AZ 42:27 4 1211 Zach Spiller 12 Scottsdale AZ 43:03 5 1216 Brian Krupitzer 12 Gilbert AZ 43:53 BOYS AGE GROUP: 13 - 13 1 1305 Eric Yatko 13 Chandler AZ 26:59 2 1301 Kyle McGinley 13 Phoenix AZ 27:30 3 1310 Ben Barthel 13 Santa Barbara CA 28:19 4 1302 Juan Carlos Pazos Cabrera 13 Hermosillo SO 30:11 5 1315 Pj Allen 13 Phoenix AZ 31:16 BOYS AGE GROUP: 14 - 14 1 1401 Greg Harper 14 Walnut Creek CA 23:46 2 1404 Gustavo Azcona-Castillo 14 Hermosillo SO 27:38 3 1402 Zach Bradley 14 Phoenix AZ 28:14 4 1409 Paul Alberto Ortiz Garcia 14 Hermosillo SO 29:44 5 1405 Brendan Myrman 14 Chandler AZ 30:18
BS… I agree with you about your last sentence. Sergio will not race triahtlons (maybe for fun but not competitively) next year. He will focus on road and track cycling. It is very hard to extrapolate between events I agree. If you look carefully on that results table, you will notice that the 2nd place kid in the 13 year old wave, finished way behind Sergio. He is Sergio’s friend, ranked 2nd in Mexico. When Sergio arrived to the finish line fresher than ever, I asked him why was he running so slow. His answer was, “Did not you see how far behind Ricky was?”. His expression changed when I told him that Ricky races with him in the same 12-13 AG in Mexico, but even if they did not race together with the 14 and 15 year old kids in the USA, his and Ricki’s times were going to be compared to the 14 AG and the 15 AG times. He shrugged his shoulders and told me that it was the only race in a long time that he really enjoyed without the pressure for ranking points. I am glad he enjoyed that race, but I can not say the same of other races. His face is most of the time a very serious face at the start line and a pain face and not a smiling face in the finish photograph
I think at this point it is clear that even with the timing mistake, Greg Harper did a great race. He was clearly superior to those other kids.
I am still surprised to find two mistakes of that type in the only two races of this type sanctioned by USAT that I have checked carefully.
Best wishes,
Sergio
White improved dramatically for several reasons in between her 13 and 14 year old seasons. 1. new gear. 2. training with mike pigg. 3. running high school cross country.
You are right though, a lot of years a new kid can show up and kick everyone’s ass.
Chris
Hmmm… I think you are missing something. The average speed on the bike is calculated based on the time it took him to go 6.2 miles, but this time included transition. Assuming T1 took 2:30 minutes(reasonable), then his average bike speed would be >27 Mph. Did Sergio Jr’s average speed include the time it took to do transition? To average 26.9 mph - including the hypothetical 2:30 transition, his on the bike speed would have to average > 32 Mph.
BTW, I’m not trying to knock Sergio Jr. down a notch, or lift Greg up a notch, just trying to make sure everyone understands that you can’t just look at the average speed in a race where transitions are included in the splits, and assume you are a faster rider. To make that call, you really need to be there, on the course.
Also, at Ironkids in Roseville a couple years ago, the kids went off in age waves, 8 or 10 at a time. Not sure if they did the same in Tempe.
I wish Sergio all the best with his riding next year. He’s got a ton of talent - at 27mph or 32mph, he still much faster than I am.
John
John… Sergio’s T1 time at his USAT event was 0:48 (fastest T1). The average time for the rest of the kids was close to 1:30. But you are right, you have to take that T1 time into account. The cycling comparison I did was more to emphasize that Sergio Jr. had told me (with a smile) that there was almost no chance at all that he will be able to swim as fast as Greg next year when he is 14.
Sergio Jr. had to cancel his trip to race at that particular event, because of serious damage to our business in Mexico caused by hurricane Lane. He really wanted to win the National Championship in Mexico and also in the USA in the same year. First thing he does after the event, is go check the results. He notices the illogical 0:48 time and wonders what happened. His first thought was that Greg went into the pool in TT mode after a series of kids and thinks that maybe by mistake he got out of the pool earlier, in confusion when seeing other kids that started before him exiting the pool. When I posted my question, Sergio Jr was curious to know if he was DQF or not as at that time the Ironkids page showed only the times and there was no way to confirm if he was awarded or not.
After checking the results (he did not know they were preliminary results), Sergio Jr remembered that in his only experience in a USAT triathlon, they made a grave mistake that led to the awarding of the wrong kid. He asked me to check out in ST about how this race he was very interested in ended.
You can notice in my first posts that I was aware that Greg is a top triathlete kid. As I mentioned before, Greg did a great race. I do not know him or his father, but I do know from personal experience that those times do not come easy in a kid his age. Those times are the result of a very hard effort. Both he and his father should be very proud.
I am sorry Greg got involved in this discussion that has to do mainly with a timing mistake. In my first post, I did not mention his name, but only his number in an effort to expose him the least. I hope this matter comes to a finish, now that it is clear that it was a timing mistake and that he is the Ironkids National Champion.
My best wishes also to you John,
Sergio
Or IronKids Arizona Champion
.