I got a bike with 11 speed (P3), but realize that my race wheel (Aeolus 7) has a 10 speed hub (well, I should have known that). I see the 11 speed hub is supposed to be 36.75 mm versus 34.95 mm for 10 speed.
So what I did was remove the 13 tooth cog and spacer on an 11-25 Shimano cassette so that I can fit the resultant “10 speed” cassette on the 10 speed hub. But because it is a slightly shorter hub, I added 2 thin spacers to compensate. Initially I added one, but I could not tighten up the lock ring, so it seems that 2 was needed.
Next I put it on the bike and everything shifts fine from the 11-12-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-25. Now I just need to set the screw at the top end so that if I accidentally “shift” into the 11th speed, I don’t end with a chain in the spokes.
Anything else I need to do? Too late right now to get a longer hub for my race wheel.
Anyone with experience with this. It looks like my race wheel axle is long enough to accommodate 11 speed and need a new hub body. Alternatively move the hub body from training set up that my bike came with to race wheel, but I have less confidence in myself doing that than simply setting the the screw and limiting the movement on the 11th click.
Personally I think that I would put the false shift at the high end, so that the missing gear exists beyond the 11 tooth cog, that way the limiter screw should prevent you from even selecting that gear.
Personally I think that I would put the false shift at the high end, so that the missing gear exists beyond the 11 tooth cog, that way the limiter screw should prevent you from even selecting that gear.
I actually adjusted both set screws to limit the range at either end. On the “easy end” of the gearing, I tightened the most and effectively made the 11th click evaporate. On the “hard end” I turned the set screw a bit more than half a turn…just to make sure that on a hard down shift it does not fly off the 11 tooth into the frame. The two spacers basically moved the entire “new 10 speed system” to the right of where an 11 speed system would start (near the spoke side), but as it is narrower than an actual 11 speed system, the 2 spacers does not get the last cog (11 tooth) quite as far towards the frame as an actual cog plus spacer would. Does this make sense?
Personally I think that I would put the false shift at the high end, so that the missing gear exists beyond the 11 tooth cog, that way the limiter screw should prevent you from even selecting that gear.
On further inspection although the lock ring it tight there still remains around .125 mm of play in tightening the cassette down. It is tight at firm at the lock ring but seems like there is a bit of play left. I need to find a ‘fatter spacer’ around the house
Doh. I have just been working on a rapid rise rear derailleur, and got my advice around the wrong way. In other words, I agree 100% with your initial setup, unless you happen to have a low normal derailleur.
Doh. I have just been working on a rapid rise rear derailleur, and got my advice around the wrong way. In other words, I agree 100% with your initial setup, unless you happen to have a low normal derailleur.
We’re all good. Also rather than 2 “thin spacers” I just used one of the 11 speed spacers on the “spoke side” of where the cassette starts. This seems to have done the trick.
On inspecting the 11 speed free hub beside a 10 speed, it almost appears they are identical length in terms of physical length, but when you look at how close the first cog sits to the “spokes” it seems like the amount of metal between the recess where the cog sits and where the spokes are is “less”. So physically when the 11 speed free hub sits inside the bike it is actually “no longer” than 10 speed even though it can hold more cogs. Is this correct. Or if I order an 11 speed free hub, I need longer axle spacers on both sides to keep the wheel/tire centered relative to frame?
Some good questions. I posted about this before and explained some easy ways to do it. But sounds like you figured it out. Question: what made you remove the 13T cog in particular? Seems like that would make for a very uneven gearing progression.
Some good questions. I posted about this before and explained some easy ways to do it. But sounds like you figured it out. Question: what made you remove the 13T cog in particular? Seems like that would make for a very uneven gearing progression.
Greg @ dsw
The 11 and 12 kind of come together in a “package” if you know what I mean. They have to mate to each other. If not I’d have removed the 12 and just kept the 13. In the end at my level, if I am in 13, I can just as easily be in a 12 or an 11…it means I am downhill with a tailwind so none of these are critical gears for me. More important to have 14-25 for me (in general). If you can confirm my Q about the axle spacers that would be interesting to know before I bug the guys in the shop on what I need to order to upgrade the Aeolus free hub/axle…hopefully there is zero dishing of the the spoke lacing coming into play here.
Your question is complex. Lots of variables. I can start with this: the largest cog on an 11-speed shimano cassette actually sits farther from the spokes than the largest cog of a shimano 10-speed cassette (but without the steel shimano behind-cassette-spacer – which was required on nearly all shimano 10-speed cassette installations), if both cassettes are fitted on identical cassette bodies.
Your question is complex. Lots of variables. I can start with this: the largest cog on an 11-speed shimano cassette actually sits farther from the spokes than the largest cog of a shimano 10-speed cassette (but without the steel shimano behind-cassette-spacer – which was required on nearly all shimano 10-speed cassette installations), if both cassettes are fitted on identical cassette bodies.
Another trick we used (way back in the day) going from 5 to 6 speed (or was it 6-7 speed) was to just add washers on either side of the axle and splay the steel frame apart by a few mm. It left less axle to hook into the drop outs but with tight clamping of the quick release plus vertical drop outs, plus the flex of steel, nothing went anywhere and the wheel would stay centered…those options are kind of gone in these days of carbon and horizontal drop outs.
On inspecting the 11 speed free hub beside a 10 speed, it almost appears they are identical length in terms of physical length, but when you look at how close the first cog sits to the “spokes” it seems like the amount of metal between the recess where the cog sits and where the spokes are is “less”. So physically when the 11 speed free hub sits inside the bike it is actually “no longer” than 10 speed even though it can hold more cogs. Is this correct. Or if I order an 11 speed free hub, I need longer axle spacers on both sides to keep the wheel/tire centered relative to frame?
The 11spd cog stack is 2.85mm wider than 10spd. The 11spd freehub spline is 1.85mm wider. I don’t know of any way to put a 11 spd cassette on there unless you modify your freehub by grinding material away to allow the cassette to go farther in board… and then you may very well have spoke-derailleur clearance issues.
If you need or want axle spacers, then put them only on the DS. Make just enough clearance for chain-frame in the 11t. Redish the wheel if necessary.
Yes, my entire bike set up is 11 speed. The problem is that my race wheel hub is 11 speed.
I looked at an 11 speed hub beside a 10 speed hub and took measurements from where the hub mates with the wheel and there the axle mates with the frame. The total for 11 speed is almost 45 mm. The total for 10 speed appears to be just over 43 mm. So in theory, you could just put an 11 speed hub on a 10 speed wheel and put in more axle spacers on each side but that would around 3.5 mm of “stuff” in between the two chain stays (it seems to be around 1.8mm diff between 10 and 11 speed).
Here is a good diagram that I found on the internet at bikerumour.com:
So if you were to just bolt on an 11 speed freehub to an existing 10 speed wheel, you’d need 1.8 mm of washers/spacers on each side of the axle to keep the wheel centered…or you need a proper 11 speed hub and the associated dishing. Not sure if carbon frames can take a total of 133.6 mm of axle versus 130mm spec that has been standard on 8-9-10 speed (and now 11 speed at 131).
This is a tangent, but I just switched an old road bike of my wife’s from 7 speed to 9 speed by adding 9 of the 10 cogs from a 10sp cassette and putting 10sp SRAM X7 shifters and a flat bar on the front. Of course it was important to adjust the rear der set screws. Converted the triple chainring to a single ring and now it’s a great townie. Creative bike work is fun!
