I have tried to work this out myself but to no avail so i am looking for advice. I am a pretty solid stand alone runner for my age and in running events and even long trail runs/races drinking and nutrition is not a problem. Almost never any water and never get stitches. But, in 1/2 IM’s…out of maybe 15 or so…i have only managed two decent runs …i drink and gel on the bike i think the right amount but almost always i get a stitch and have to slow down and i am also very thirsty…the nutrition on the bike is Infinit and i usually try to down two bottles and have maybe 4-5 gels for a 2:40 or so ride. None of the races have been insanely hot. I don’t want to go overboard with this so with info given does anybody have any ideas…thanks in advance.
it might not be a nutrition problem but a run after swimming and biking problem – i.e. you’re just plain tired.
Dunno if I’ve got a nutrition tip, but are you sure that your problem is nutrition? I may be wrong, but it sounds like you have more of a pacing problem in the run. Do you start too fast? For long races you need to ease yourself into the run, you can’t start at full blast, unless you’ve got yr pace down to a T. Do you do many long Bike/Run bricks? I would try doing at least an 80k/16k, to get a decent idea, though I typically do a 100k/20ks. This would have the advantage of enabling you to test your nutrition strategy as well. Longer races are difficult to pace, and it does sometimes take a while to crack it (don’t know if I’ve really cracked it myself - the best I’ve managed is 4:30).
Thanks for the input…i do actually do long ride/run bricks and sometimes i have the same problem in terms of stitches. But you did remind that maybe i need to really “practice” my nutrition more exactly during long bricks and yes maybe going out a bit fast my also be an issue. Thanks, and i think a 4:30 means you’ve cracked it…congrats…
Thanks for the kind words. I might have to be content with my 4:30, as I’m getting older and slower 
Just my personal experience, but I’ve learned to a) take all calories as liquid, and b) take in calories continuously over the entire bike leg, starting as soon as you clip in.
I’ve also learned - contrary to some recent articles - that I absolutely cannot trust my sense of thirst on the bike. If I wait until I’m thirsty to start drinking in a 1/2 IM, I’m totally screwed. On the run, my thirst seems better calibrated, and I can make decisions aid station to aid station. On the bike I follow an liters/hour schedule depending on the heat.
How many calories per bottle for the Infinit? Might be that two bottles plus 4 - 5 gels is too of calories for a 5 hour race at relatively high intensity. If you are sure you have the pacing right, I would say cut back a bit.
G
i am also very thirsty
You do NOT want that to happen. If you are very thirsty, you are already somewhat dehydrated. As one of the other posters suggested. Try taking in your calories via liquid.
How much do you drink and how often on the bike?
or maybe he has too much sodium?
I’m a sub-2:30 HIM bike guy, and 172 lbs. I take in about 300 cal/hr in liquid form or maybe one or two gels. Perhaps you are trying to eat too much while going too hard on the bike?
Also, there’s no such thing as a good bike followed by a bad run… perhaps you are biking too hard, or are skimping on your bike training. Triathlon is all about the run, if nothing else because it’s last, but the run in triathlon is all about the bike.
good luck.
Get rid of the rubbish.
Your drink is too thick and (as a runner) you don’t need so many calories (fat metabolism is surely ok with your trail running background), especially no protein and high mineral solutions. Drink one bottle of fluid per hour on the bike, I recommend dilluted sport drink (50g carbs / liter, I use 35g Powerbar for 0,75 l bottles, recommended is 50g). You don’t need any gels, if you are hungry eat a mars bar half way on the bike (no cereal, so it does not dehydrate you that much) on an easier part of the course.
On the run switch to coke/water sportdrink/water. Eatin IMHO is for IM races and before/after races.
But most of all, no thick protein and high mineral solutions.
If the strategy above does not work, try coke+water from the beginning (1/2 coke 1/2 water). Most sport drinks contain way too much “stuff” to digest. In an 1/2 IM everything more than water and sugar is highly optional, definitely not needed.
Thanks for the input…i do actually do long ride/run bricks and sometimes i have the same problem in terms of stitches. But you did remind that maybe i need to really “practice” my nutrition more exactly during long bricks and yes maybe going out a bit fast my also be an issue. Thanks, and i think a 4:30 means you’ve cracked it…congrats…
May I just suggest in addition to what was said above to stop drinking last 15-20min on the bike to let the stomach settle for the run. I experienced the same when I was consuming late into the bike. Cut it off a little earlier, do consume all the calories you need.
I had the same problem with infinit and probably still do but gets worse when warm. I take 500mg of sodium per hour. That is the source of my thurst. You may need to drink water from the aid stations along once in a while, but gets worse in the last 14mi.
thanks to everyone for taking the time to help with my problem…i took notes on all the responses and will try and play around with some of them on the next few races…
Drink one bottle of fluid per hour on the bike, I recommend dilluted sport drink (50g carbs / liter, I use 35g Powerbar for 0,75 l bottles, recommended is 50g). You don’t need any gels, if you are hungry eat a mars bar half way on the bike (no cereal, so it does not dehydrate you that much) on an easier part of the course.
How does your fluid intake differ on a 112 mile IM bike?
adal’s post is really good!
also:
-If you are really thirsty you do not drink enough, or you eat too much salt (pasta party before race?)
-if you pee during the race, you drank too much.
-if you get hungry, you need more chocolate or gels. Mars is excellent stuff. Some can eat solids, some can’t on a half.
Drink one bottle of fluid per hour on the bike, I recommend dilluted sport drink (50g carbs / liter, I use 35g Powerbar for 0,75 l bottles, recommended is 50g). You don’t need any gels, if you are hungry eat a mars bar half way on the bike (no cereal, so it does not dehydrate you that much) on an easier part of the course.
How does your fluid intake differ on a 112 mile IM bike?
It differs with intensity and heat, not so much with race duration.
But generally a HIM allows more dehydration, so while in a half you can push through, in an IM you sometimes have to slow down to get calories and liquids in. Generally some assumptions in the literature and in this thread are quite wrong:
- “Determine sweat rate by weighing before and after …” - thats wrong. In fact some weightloss occurs by running down your carbo stores and the associated water - both need not be replaced by drinking more fluids
- Dehydration of reduces performance by %. Thats wrong as well. According to Noakes, the fastest runners are often most dehydrated, slight dehydration is a perfectly natural occurance during endurance races
- You should pee <insert random number between 0-20> times during a race. Why?
My rules:
- Start with a simple generic approach and modify during training
- Keep what works, change what does not work
- Like this, everyone will eventually ermerge with a perfect individual plan
My individual plan:
- Bottle of sport drink per hour on the bike (slightly dilluted) additional water if thirsty - this applies to all distances
- A bar midway during a HIM (Mars) on an easier part of the course (think start of a downhill) the idea is, that most of the time I am pushing too hard to eat, so when oppertunity comes, i will eat the whole bar
- A bite of a bar (1/4) every 15 minutes in an IM (Powerbar)
- On the run alternate between gel/water - sportdrink/water - coke/water
- If something goes wrong, switch to coke and water - this will carry me home, no matter what
Hey Why86-
Here is something to think about. INFINIT is a nutrition replacement period! You are getting all your nutrition… calories, and electo’s from your INFINIT. Your INFINIT is also balanced with the proper osmolality. Meaning how much stuff and your gut can only take so much. When you add gels you are throwing the osmo through the roof. You don’t need them.
IM with any questions
Hey Why86-
Here is something to think about. INFINIT is a nutrition replacement period! You are getting all your nutrition… calories, and electo’s from your INFINIT. Your INFINIT is also balanced with the proper osmolality. Meaning how much stuff and your gut can only take so much. When you add gels you are throwing the osmo through the roof. You don’t need them.
IM with any questions
Maybe it is just me, but the use of “all in” drinks and stomach problems seem to go hand in hand a lot. My reasons to avoid them:
- They reduce flexibility (i rarely take food with me for races, I can handle just about every drink/bar/gel/coke that is handed out)
- If my stomach handles calories well, I will have gels during the run, at other times it is water only
- Coke is the “bailout option”, never failed to bring me back on track
Flexibility and not using too much stuff work for me, never had any nutritional issues is 11 IM and 10 HIM races And thats while using Powerbar (gels/bars/drinks), gatorade, isostar long energy, Pro4 and whatever they handed out in Italy and France (some local energy drink i think).
Makes preparation easier as well …
My individual plan:
- Bottle of sport drink per hour on the bike (slightly dilluted) additional water if thirsty - this applies to all distances
- A bar midway during a HIM (Mars) on an easier part of the course (think start of a downhill) the idea is, that most of the time I am pushing too hard to eat, so when oppertunity comes, i will eat the whole bar
- A bite of a bar (1/4) every 15 minutes in an IM (Powerbar)
- On the run alternate between gel/water - sportdrink/water - coke/water
- If something goes wrong, switch to coke and water - this will carry me home, no matter what
Your HIM plan is very similar to mine, which is why I asked about your full plan. I am attempting my first 140.6 this year at IMFLA.
Out of curiosity, how many Mars Bars wil you go through over 140.6 miles (at one buite every :15) and how long does it take you? I’m more of a Clif bar kinda guy. Do you know how they compare to mars in terms of nutrional value (carbs, calories etc)
My individual plan:
- Bottle of sport drink per hour on the bike (slightly dilluted) additional water if thirsty - this applies to all distances
- A bar midway during a HIM (Mars) on an easier part of the course (think start of a downhill) the idea is, that most of the time I am pushing too hard to eat, so when oppertunity comes, i will eat the whole bar
- A bite of a bar (1/4) every 15 minutes in an IM (Powerbar)
- On the run alternate between gel/water - sportdrink/water - coke/water
- If something goes wrong, switch to coke and water - this will carry me home, no matter what
Your HIM plan is very similar to mine, which is why I asked about your full plan. I am attempting my first 140.6 this year at IMFLA.
Out of curiosity, how many Mars Bars wil you go through over 140.6 miles (at one buite every :15) and how long does it take you? I’m more of a Clif bar kinda guy. Do you know how they compare to mars in terms of nutrional value (carbs, calories etc)
I use Powerbars during the full. As I take 5 hours for the bike, this amounts to 4 bars and 2 gels (no bars in the last hour, want an empty stomach for the run, so in the last hour on the bike, I switch to gel, 2gels = 1 bar = 200 cals)
Sometimes I also take gels on a half, instead of the mars bar, my body decides
Clif bars are too “grainy” for me, but if they work for you? Why not just test in in your longer training days?
A 60min swim (30 easy 30 IM speed), 180k on the bike at IM intensity and a 8k run will give you much more information, than all the posts in slowtwitch And might be a very good training as well …