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Need advice on a first world problem
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TLDR - my plastic bike water bottle was taken by some construction workers and I'd like it back. Should I go full-on Karen or completely let it go?

Long story, since its Friday

On Thursday this week I was doing some interval running at a dam in my area. This location has sets of stairs with each set having ~100' of elevation gain. I like this location for intervals as I can take the stairs walking/jogging and then jog down to the bottom. Each interval is .5mi/~6min if Im enjoying my MOP-AG pace. On the trail back, the last ~100 yards to the bottom of the stairs is a paved service road. While it was just me this day, my friends and I have always put our water bottles on the edge of the service road under a shaded tree so when we stop we are shaded.

For the past 2 years this dam has had construction. They have been working at the generator building at the bottom of the dam. Since this is a very frequented site by walkers due to its beauty and stairs, everything has remained open. I continue to go there, others continue to go there.

So I'm doing my intervals and im like 5 in, so I've been going for almost 30 min. As I turn the corner I see 2 white trucks coming my way. I move my jogging to the grass so they have the entire road to drive. They drive by and I then can see ahead of my that my water bottle is missing. I jog to the location and quick look around. Maybe someone moved it? Maybe it got ran over? I start looking around on the grass and up to the brush. Then down to the water, nothing. WTF? I should add that Thursday this week I was alone at the dam. It was raining and pretty miserable so there was no other walker/joggers present who could have taken it.

My reaction in this moment was pure annoyance. Something as stupid and silly as a water bottle to be taken for who knows what reason. In addition, it all happened within the last 6 minutes. Why on earth would anyone do this? My thoughts were of 2 scenarios:
1. Someone thought it would be funny to annoy a jogger and swiped the water bottle
2. Someone ran over the water bottle by mistake and broke it and then wanted to cover it up

As I continued to think about this the more annoyed I got. Yes, it's true it's only a water bottle. What's also true is someone thought it was OK to take someone else's property with no sense of responsibility or accountability. For example, what if this was a sweatshirt taken? Is that OK? What if it was a wallet or backpack or bike that was taken? Is that OK? We know the answer to the wallet and bike, but where is the line?

Once I couldn't find the water bottle I went to the construction trailer which I am assuming is housed by management overseeing the site. I politely knock on the door and am offered entry. A nice lady is working the desk in the office alone. I politely explain to her my situation, exactly what happened. I politely ask if she could see if someone took my water bottle and if I could have it back. She makes a couple calls, asks a few questions and as reasonably expected, has no answers. I explain to her that while this is just a water bottle, it is important to me and I really just want my property back. She states she will ask around. I ask her if there are video cameras around and she states yes. I ask her if I could see them and she states she will ask. I thank her for the time, I apologize for the inconvenience and situation, but let her know its important to me and Ill be back tomorrow morning to see if they found it. She states she wont be here but some important person will be. I again thank her and leave.

This morning 9am I go down the site and politely knock. I enter and there is a new individual there. I explain my situation and he looks at me like Im crazy as he has no idea whats going on. I ask him if he is in-charge and he explains "he is for now" while others are away. I thank him for his time and let him know Ill be back Monday to check.

More context, while I am a nobody in the world, I am a somebody locally. I am a duly elected official in the town next to the one with the dam which I was jogging in. In my role (as well as other elected officials) I oversee the entire town. I feel I need to note this role is unpaid and completely volunteer. I have influence locally and if I felt like it was necessary, I could exert this influence to try and bring about a desirable outcome, even in a neighboring town. In addition, if I felt a business was wronging or taking advantage of residents, I could make their situation very difficult.

Before someone starts screaming ETHICS, please let me explain. Let me explain from the standpoint of a locally elected official who works in service to residents and business to ensure they are duly represented:
- I believe it is never the right time to do the wrong thing. I believe in personal accountability and responsibility. I believe if someone or something makes a mistake, own up to it and we can work through it. Never hide it.
- I believe if a resident or business in my town is being taken advantage of, it is my job to advocate for them, not ignore them because I do not believe their ask is important.
- I believe culture is important. I believe culture is created through leading by example as well as calling out bad acting as necessary. I believe we must fight for the culture we want. If it was easy, culture would be perfect everywhere.

Before someone starts screaming (like my wife) IT'S JUST A WATER BOTTLE FIRST WORLD PROBLEMS, let me explain my assessment of this situation. Again, this is my perspective which is coming from someone who needs to frequently asses "he said she said" situations before his board. This is part of my role when making a determination of how to use town resources:
- Someone felt it was OK to take someone else's property. Either they thought it would be funny or they ran it over and wanted to cover it up.
- The construction company doesn't care about something their employees did. Or they do care, but are covering it up for whatever reason. They think complacency with other people's property is OK.

I believe the above 2 behaviors are not OK. Here are my examples:
1. Imagine someone broke into one of the construction workers cars and took something from it. For this example, let's say it was a coffee mug. Just a coffee mug, but one which was given to the person by their deceased mother. Would we expect the construction company to take action? Would they look at the video and advocare for their employee? How far would they go for a "coffee mug"?
2. Imagine someone broke into the construction site and took something of significant importance to them. Maybe even something which cannot be easily replaced and needed for their work. Would the construction company expect support from the town and police force to help them get it back? Would they want the town and their resources to advocate on their behalf even though it doesn't impact the town directly?

I share the above 2 examples because I've been in politics for a bit. Not to monologue but people need to be reminded that culture swings both ways, ie everyone needs to work at it. Culture takes a long time, and a lot of thankless work.

In closing, and in my wife's best voice, IT'S JUST A WATER BOTTLE, GET A LIFE! And in my voice, as someone who fights for positive culture for everyone, "do the right thing or face the consequences."

What says slowtwitch?

PS - yes, this is a serious post about a water bottle. Everything I wrote above is true.
PSS - yes, I have a life. I may even represent you and your family. What type of town do you want to live in?
Last edited by: JAA: May 17, 24 8:54
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Re: Need advice on a first world problem [JAA] [ In reply to ]
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I'm more of the one to (possibly naively) try to see the best in people or assume the better, as I've learned that assuming the worst all the time just leads you to become an unpleasant person to be around, and it's far worse to be that person that nobody wants to be around rather than getting 'burned' a few times because you were too nice.

In your situation, I'd just assume someone saw a water bottle and thought it was essentially trash at this point, and rather than just leave it as someone else's problem, they took the responsibility to deal with it themselves.

You can still leave water bottles in the future though, just in the future, since you know now that there are people retrieving these things, you can put a note with the date on it and time saying you'll need this later today. That way they'll know it's not trash.

And yes, it's entirely possible that someone was trying to be a douche and leave you stranded without your water bottle, but I'd def take my above explained standpoint for this small loss.
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Re: Need advice on a first world problem [JAA] [ In reply to ]
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I'm with your wife, and with lightheir. Someone saw a presumably littered water bottle and moved it. Get over it. And yourself.

***
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Re: Need advice on a first world problem [JAA] [ In reply to ]
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I bet you’re a real joy to be around at a party… jk haha.

Like someone already said, you’ve made a whole lot of assumptions of someone’s moral character based off a lost $5 water bottle… In my book this entire thing is a non issue, and nearly every aspect and justification for your case makes it sound more and more “Karen”. Move on. Just my opinion.

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Re: Need advice on a first world problem [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
I'm more of the one to (possibly naively) try to see the best in people or assume the better, as I've learned that assuming the worst all the time just leads you to become an unpleasant person to be around, and it's far worse to be that person that nobody wants to be around rather than getting 'burned' a few times because you were too nice.

In your situation, I'd just assume someone saw a water bottle and thought it was essentially trash at this point, and rather than just leave it as someone else's problem, they took the responsibility to deal with it themselves.

You can still leave water bottles in the future though, just in the future, since you know now that there are people retrieving these things, you can put a note with the date on it and time saying you'll need this later today. That way they'll know it's not trash.

And yes, it's entirely possible that someone was trying to be a douche and leave you stranded without your water bottle, but I'd def take my above explained standpoint for this small loss.

Thank you for the response.

The most plausible answer to the situation is the 2 white trucks, the only folks to pass by that spot in the rain, did take the water bottle.

Question: When the drove by me jogging in the rain, what went through their head? Nothing? Move on? That's it?
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Re: Need advice on a first world problem [M----n] [ In reply to ]
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M----n wrote:
I'm with your wife, and with lightheir. Someone saw a presumably littered water bottle and moved it. Get over it. And yourself.

Thank you for the response. Do you have kids?

If they came home and explained they took someone else's property because they thought they were cleaning up and being helpful, as a parent how would you respond?

If your kids had their water bottle snatched out of their hands at school by a bully and came home and explained to you the situation, what advice would you give them? Would you tell them to get over it and yourself?

Thank you
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Re: Need advice on a first world problem [csb146] [ In reply to ]
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csb146 wrote:
I bet you’re a real joy to be around at a party… jk haha.

Like someone already said, you’ve made a whole lot of assumptions of someone’s moral character based off a lost $5 water bottle… In my book this entire thing is a non issue, and nearly every aspect and justification for your case makes it sound more and more “Karen”. Move on. Just my opinion.
Thank you for the response.

What if it was a $50 sweatshirt from your university. Would you give the same feedback here?
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Re: Need advice on a first world problem [M----n] [ In reply to ]
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Exactly.

"I've been in politics for a bit" sums it up succinctly; it's a textbook Dunning-Kruger that one can think oneself a thought leader devoted to 'establishing culture' while being this socially oblivious.

But what do I know?! THE PEOPLE NEED TO BE REMINDED!
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Re: Need advice on a first world problem [Ing.] [ In reply to ]
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Ing. wrote:
Exactly.

"I've been in politics for a bit" sums it up succinctly; it's a textbook Dunning-Kruger that one can think oneself a thought leader devoted to 'establishing culture' while being this socially oblivious.

But what do I know?! THE PEOPLE NEED TO BE REMINDED!
Hi

Would someone overestimating their own competence come to slowtwitch and open themselves up for ridicule? Would they make themselves vulnerable to criticism and ridicule if they truly felt that way?

What do you know? Have you served in a volunteer capacity to better things for your neighbors? I would love to hear your experience of knowing exactly what to do perfectly in every situation.

Thank you
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Re: Need advice on a first world problem [JAA] [ In reply to ]
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A) it wasn’t a $50 sweatshirt so that’s relevant.

B) Yes. I’d take personal responsibility for my own actions of leaving something in a vulnerable spot where it might get taken or lost. Instead of being a victim.

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Re: Need advice on a first world problem [csb146] [ In reply to ]
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csb146 wrote:
A) it wasn’t a $50 sweatshirt so that’s relevant.

B) Yes. I’d take personal responsibility for my own actions of leaving something in a vulnerable spot where it might get taken or lost. Instead of being a victim.
Thank you for the response.

What I'm hearing you say is that your property, if not secured in a manner in which people can take it, is fair game? And when your property is taken, it is your fault and you just need to deal with it?

This whole "instead of being a victim" concept is based in immaturity and detached from reality. The truth is bad things happen to people sometimes. Sometimes it's accidental, sometimes is malicious. In both cases people deserve to be represented and advocated for. Being a victim is a real thing and not something to be shamed. Not saying that was your intention with your post, but that is how it comes across.

How about "another example": You leave your car by the side of the road and its locked. A tow truck mistakenly (in your opinion) tows your vehicle to a yard and wants $250 for you to get it out. What do you do? I mean, its just $250 and you left "something in a vulnerable spot where it might get taken or lost. Instead of being a victim"
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Re: Need advice on a first world problem [JAA] [ In reply to ]
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JAA wrote:
M----n wrote:
I'm with your wife, and with lightheir. Someone saw a presumably littered water bottle and moved it. Get over it. And yourself.


Thank you for the response. Do you have kids?

If they came home and explained they took someone else's property because they thought they were cleaning up and being helpful, as a parent how would you respond?

If your kids had their water bottle snatched out of their hands at school by a bully and came home and explained to you the situation, what advice would you give them? Would you tell them to get over it and yourself?

Thank you

Yes, I have kids. I would give them the exact same advice I gave you.

The situation of a bully snatching a bottle is NOT the same situation. In your situation, it is very realistic and even likely that someone thought they were helping by removing litter from somewhere it clearly wasn't supposed to be. That's not even remotely comparable as the example of a bully snatching your bottle. And even then, I'd recommend not fighting back, but notifying a responsible person of their behavior.
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Re: Need advice on a first world problem [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
JAA wrote:
M----n wrote:
I'm with your wife, and with lightheir. Someone saw a presumably littered water bottle and moved it. Get over it. And yourself.


Thank you for the response. Do you have kids?

If they came home and explained they took someone else's property because they thought they were cleaning up and being helpful, as a parent how would you respond?

If your kids had their water bottle snatched out of their hands at school by a bully and came home and explained to you the situation, what advice would you give them? Would you tell them to get over it and yourself?

Thank you


Yes, I have kids. I would give them the exact same advice I gave you.

The situation of a bully snatching a bottle is NOT the same situation. In your situation, it is very realistic and even likely that someone thought they were helping by removing litter from somewhere it clearly wasn't supposed to be. That's not even remotely comparable as the example of a bully snatching your bottle. And even then, I'd recommend not fighting back, but notifying a responsible person of their behavior.
Thank you for the response.

So the difference between the bully and my situation is the act of taking the object was witnessed. So if I saw the white truck pickup the water bottle then I should notify a responsible person? But since I didnt see exactly what happened I should not notify a person responsible?

Im providing these provocative examples for the purpose of discussion. Im going hypothetical here to try and understand where the "line" exists for caring vs not caring. Based on your response, it seems that unless I see the act I assume its OK and let it go?
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Re: Need advice on a first world problem [JAA] [ In reply to ]
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You've been around the forum for years so I'm willing to believe you're not just trolling, but the level of parochial rage here suggests you are really bent out of shape. Blinkered by rage. You likely wanted validation and haven't found it, so now you're questioning the qualifications of those who took the time to respond.

Take the advice of everyone here telling you that your wife is right. Sleep on it for a bit, and when you come back ask yourself whether you should dismiss the opinion of other people because you've volunteered for a role in the community. You're not the first to do so, and you're not the only one in this thread.

In poker, we call this 'tilt' - adopting suboptimal strategy because of emotions. Best to put your chips in your pocket and tilt in private.
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Re: Need advice on a first world problem [JAA] [ In reply to ]
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You’re clearly not looking for input on this situation. You’re just looking for people to agree with you, and you’re gunna keep making hypotheticals until you’ve proved you’re justified. So, I’m sorry your water bottle is missing. I hope justice is brought upon those responsible.

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Re: Need advice on a first world problem [Ing.] [ In reply to ]
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Ing. wrote:
You've been around the forum for years so I'm willing to believe you're not just trolling, but the level of parochial rage here suggests you are really bent out of shape. Blinkered by rage. You likely wanted validation and haven't found it, so now you're questioning the qualifications of those who took the time to respond.

Take the advice of everyone here telling you that your wife is right. Sleep on it for a bit, and when you come back ask yourself whether you should dismiss the opinion of other people because you've volunteered for a role in the community. You're not the first to do so, and you're not the only one in this thread.

In poker, we call this 'tilt' - adopting suboptimal strategy because of emotions. Best to put your chips in your pocket and tilt in private.
Hi Ing., thank you for the response.

Can you help me understand where my play is not +EV? I continue to provide examples of how differently to play the hand. This is exactly how 2+2 worked, example situation, discuss the plays, discuss alternative hypotheticals, and agree to disagree. Most always it was agree to disagree because of the explicit differences between pot odds vs implied odds, ie no one really knows how much someone will put in the middle. I would love to understand how you have contrived "tilt" from "I do not understand your line" in this conversation?

I'm fine being in the minority and I'm fine being laughed at. However, no one has yet to explain where the specifics are in this situation other than the value of the property taken. That's it.
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Re: Need advice on a first world problem [JAA] [ In reply to ]
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JAA wrote:
lightheir wrote:
JAA wrote:
M----n wrote:
I'm with your wife, and with lightheir. Someone saw a presumably littered water bottle and moved it. Get over it. And yourself.


Thank you for the response. Do you have kids?

If they came home and explained they took someone else's property because they thought they were cleaning up and being helpful, as a parent how would you respond?

If your kids had their water bottle snatched out of their hands at school by a bully and came home and explained to you the situation, what advice would you give them? Would you tell them to get over it and yourself?

Thank you


Yes, I have kids. I would give them the exact same advice I gave you.

The situation of a bully snatching a bottle is NOT the same situation. In your situation, it is very realistic and even likely that someone thought they were helping by removing litter from somewhere it clearly wasn't supposed to be. That's not even remotely comparable as the example of a bully snatching your bottle. And even then, I'd recommend not fighting back, but notifying a responsible person of their behavior.

Thank you for the response.

So the difference between the bully and my situation is the act of taking the object was witnessed. So if I saw the white truck pickup the water bottle then I should notify a responsible person? But since I didnt see exactly what happened I should not notify a person responsible?

Im providing these provocative examples for the purpose of discussion. Im going hypothetical here to try and understand where the "line" exists for caring vs not caring. Based on your response, it seems that unless I see the act I assume its OK and let it go?


Since you want specifics, and seem to be as intent as possible about being bull-headed about the situation (on the forums, I'm known to be bull-headed about swimming, so I can relate):

YES, unless you see the act AND know the person is stealing your bottle intetionally out of greed and/or malice, you gotta let it go. You'll be the person in the wrong the VAST majority of time here.

And in simplest terms: Listen to your wife. (Again, not a totally hard rule, but one that's clearly true here.)
Last edited by: lightheir: May 17, 24 10:42
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Re: Need advice on a first world problem [csb146] [ In reply to ]
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csb146 wrote:
You’re clearly not looking for input on this situation. You’re just looking for people to agree with you, and you’re gunna keep making hypotheticals until you’ve proved you’re justified. So, I’m sorry your water bottle is missing. I hope justice is brought upon those responsible.
I'm trying to understand where the line is of caring vs not caring. Clearly you do not want to engage in the hypotheticals because it disproves your narrative. You disengaging from this conversation is clear evidence of that.

FWIW - this is a common theme in politics:
- Care about what is immediately in-front of you and it's optics
- Care about what us ahead of you and shape your decisions on how you want things to be

It is unfortunate that the vast majority of folks can only concentrate on what is directly in front of them, the $10 water bottle and how $10 isn't worth this conversation. That is not how to lead, only caring about what is in front of you is how to react.
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Re: Need advice on a first world problem [JAA] [ In reply to ]
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TLDR?
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Re: Need advice on a first world problem [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
JAA wrote:
lightheir wrote:
JAA wrote:
M----n wrote:
I'm with your wife, and with lightheir. Someone saw a presumably littered water bottle and moved it. Get over it. And yourself.


Thank you for the response. Do you have kids?

If they came home and explained they took someone else's property because they thought they were cleaning up and being helpful, as a parent how would you respond?

If your kids had their water bottle snatched out of their hands at school by a bully and came home and explained to you the situation, what advice would you give them? Would you tell them to get over it and yourself?

Thank you


Yes, I have kids. I would give them the exact same advice I gave you.

The situation of a bully snatching a bottle is NOT the same situation. In your situation, it is very realistic and even likely that someone thought they were helping by removing litter from somewhere it clearly wasn't supposed to be. That's not even remotely comparable as the example of a bully snatching your bottle. And even then, I'd recommend not fighting back, but notifying a responsible person of their behavior.

Thank you for the response.

So the difference between the bully and my situation is the act of taking the object was witnessed. So if I saw the white truck pickup the water bottle then I should notify a responsible person? But since I didnt see exactly what happened I should not notify a person responsible?

Im providing these provocative examples for the purpose of discussion. Im going hypothetical here to try and understand where the "line" exists for caring vs not caring. Based on your response, it seems that unless I see the act I assume its OK and let it go?


Since you want specifics, and seem to be as intent as possible about being bull-headed about the situation (on the forums, I'm known to be bull-headed about swimming, so I can relate):

YES, unless you see the act AND know the person is stealing your bottle intetionally out of greed and/or malice, you gotta let it go. You'll be the person in the wrong the VAST majority of time here.

And in simplest terms: Listen to your wife. (Again, not a totally hard rule, but one that's clearly true here.)

Thank you. This is the most simplistic advice which will navigate this situation with the least adversity and conflict possible.

To be honest, I did not consider your initial example of someone simply trying to clean up. It is very plausible. Its also plausible the two trucks either didn't see me or just didn't want to care. Would they have stopped if it was a sweatshirt? A backpack?

Your point about me immediately attributing malice is a good observation. It is a weakness of mine most likely due to seeing so much malice in my role. I do wish I was better at that.

Cheers
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Re: Need advice on a first world problem [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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jimatbeyond wrote:
TLDR?
already there
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Re: Need advice on a first world problem [JAA] [ In reply to ]
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Just ask yourself:

Who the heck would want to steal your cheap water bottle? For what? Because it's fun to think you're out of water later? Because it's worth so much? Heck, they won't even ben around to see the aftermath.

Whereas - if you saw a cheap water bottle dumped in the bushes of the street near your house, kinda out of sight, but you still saw it, wouldn't you be a lot more likely to remove it as trash?

These sort of situations reflect FAR more on the owner of the bottle than the person removing it.
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Re: Need advice on a first world problem [JAA] [ In reply to ]
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That's a lot of typing over a bottle.

That being said, once I did a winter run in front of my house while we were doing construction. I had a lululemon beanie on during my warm up. After a lap around the block, I pulled the hat off and put it on my car hood (parked outside in front of the car) and continued with the run.

60 minutes later forgot completely about the beanie. But over the weeks that followed, I'm thinking, "huh, I can't find my favorite beanie...."

1 months later, I see the tile guy laying tile in my house with said beanie on his head. What's the chance of this 60 year old tile guy with exactly the same lululemon beanie as me? I don't know many 60 year old tile guys that heard of lululemon, let alone shop there....

So I say, "Hey, where did you get that beanie, that looks exactly like mine that a lost awhile back."

"Oh, I found it in the trash dumpster out front and figured you didn't want it," was his reply.

"No, I definitely do, I've been looking everywhere for it, thanks!" And I washed it and pay closer attention to where I leave it now :)
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Re: Need advice on a first world problem [JAA] [ In reply to ]
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In my opinion, you are over-thinking and over-analysing this. Whether this was an accident or a malicious action on the part of the workers is not something you need to worry about. It's a bump in the road, just absorb the bump, swear if you need to, then try to smile and move on.
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Re: Need advice on a first world problem [samtridad] [ In reply to ]
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Omg!!!!
God left…
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