no

learning to swim properly without aids all the time is hugely beneficial for you as an triathlete.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I use them when the pool is on the cool side. :)

Someone check-in on SnappingT. He's probably having seizures from seeing this question. ;-)

Love'ya Tim

p.s. I say this as a committed pull buoy user (when I swim that is).

Taren,is that you?
.
.

Wear then no more than once a week. I have a slow swimming buddy that wears them because he's faster that way. When he doesn't wear them, his form really goes to crap. Which makes him want to wear them more. Then he gets into a bad cycle.

I'll go against the grain. You should learn to swim properly. But, you likely aren't going to spend the time to do that. Assuming you don't/aren't willing to learn proper technique, I think using the shorts to put you in a better position to swim properly day in/day out is better than swimming like crap in all your training only to put on a wetsuit that will put you in a different position and make you swim much differently than you did throughout training with no buoyancy shorts.

I would wear them all the time for a couple of years, at first you go much faster which feels nice.
But in the end your whole form goes down the drain.
And it takes a long time to get it back at an older age, like 50+

Wear them as a tool instead of a pull buoy for focused training on technique so you can concentrate on a specific part of your strike.
It is really a tool, like a pull buoy and not a replacement for your trunks ;-)

Jeroen

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Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands

This so perfectly summarizes current triathlon, except you forgot to mention your swim likely has a good chance to get cancelled anyways so fuck it; use as much aid as you want......

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Good point.....except I think this also summarizes older triathlon too

I genuinely don't understand the benefit to these at all. Want to work on your pull? Get a buoy. Otherwise, why in the hell are you trying to make it easier to swim? It's like using an ebike on the trainer.

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

True. Should have specified - question is for a strong swimmer with good form, not learning to swim. What is best for training, not learning?

I have those 'cheater' buoyancy shorts for the pool, and wow - they do make you go faster! For me, it's nearly as fast an wearing an entire wetsuit in the pool. I wore them a bunch, now rarely wear them just due to the minor hassle of bringing them and putting them on, as well as making it harder to compare swim time progress across sessions.


As such, after using them a bunch, I don't think they are the form-destroyer than some folks make them out to be, and I actually think for triathlete swimmers, it's likely fine to use these all the time if you're racing in wetsuits - similar to how Brett Sutton has said along the lines "I don't care if you use PB, paddles, so long as it makes you swim MORE."

The real potential problems though are:

- If you actually do have draggy form-limiting legs especially as identified by a coach, you're definitely still leaving speed on the table by just using the shorts to compensate, even if it's a small amount since you're racing wetsuit.

- The bigger one though is that anything that makes swimming EASIER can end up being a crutch to not go as hard. Not that you have to kill yourself every day, but if you're doing a hard 300 set, and you are 5sec/100 faster with the sim shorts, you're doing the equivalent of 15sec less per 300. And that doesn't even count the potentially easier overall effort you might put in since you 'feel fast' with the sim shorts. Even paddles can fall into this category.

Still, I'm def not in the 'hate 'em leave 'em' camp - especially if they get you in the pool more. And the reality as well for us AGers is that the sim shorts DO more closely simulate the actual body position of race swimming in a wetsuit, and yes it IS important for us AGers who don't swim a ton to practice that position, whether it be with sim shorts or a wetsuit. For me, two big technical things these tools give is feeling how much harder you can pull given the suit/short assist over distance, as well as faster sighting given the added buoyancy. These things can help a LOT - especially compared to if you just go into a wetsuit race with zero wetsuit practice.

A pull buoy requires you to keep your thighs together so the pull buoy stays in place. That effort affects your body's movement, rotation, etc. I have swum with a pull buoy for a portion of my swim workout for years. But I have seen convincing arguments recently that 1) when you are training for a wetsuit legal triathlon (most are), specificity is key, and having buoyancy that simulates a wetsuit (like buoyancy shorts or a pull buoy) is more productive than swim training without the buoyancy because of the specificity - similar body position to the one you will have in the water when you are actually in the race, and 2) buoyancy shorts are superior for this type of training for the reasons I wrote above (freer, more natural movement.)

Avoiding a pull buoy in training to then do a triathlon swim leg in a wetsuit has the specificity problem like training on a road bike to them do a triathlon in aero position on a tri bike - the more time in your actual race position in training the better the results.

Assume form and technique are equal in either case - for the sake of this conversation let's not assume that because someone wears buoyancy shorts they are using it as a crutch and suck at swimming.

To get used to the feeling of extra buoyancy like when you put a wetsuit on (without cooking in the pool); to let the legs recover or save them for a following bike/run session; they still allow you to kick in a normal rhythm like you would without them, which a pull buoy doesnt allow; to swim with better form (body position) for longer so you know what it should feel like without any aid. Why wouldn't you want to make getting better at swimming easier? They are just another tool in the arsenal.

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@the.lazy.triathlete

https://www.strava.com/athletes/18691068

OK I'll bite. I'd hardly say I'm a "strong swimmer" as I really only learned to swim when I started triathlon in my late 20s. But I've swam 28-29 with regularity for wetsuit legal 70.3s and 58-1:02 for wetsuit legal Ironmans.

Prior to getting my neoprene pants, I hated going to the pool. Hated it. I could swim fine, but it was both a mental and physical struggle, especially on an "off" day in the pool. I'd skip swims with regularity because I simply didn't enjoy it. I got my first pair 7-8 years ago when I think they first came out. Total game changer *for me*. They helped me enjoy swimming, which in turn, helped me go to the pool more regularly, Going to the pool more regularly = increased yardage = increased fitness = better overall triathlon performance in wetsuit legal swims.

I'd use them 100% if my upcoming races were *guaranteed* to have a wetsuit swim...places like Oceanside, IMAZ, CDA, among others. If there was any doubt that the swim would *not* be wetsuit legal, I'd be swimming without them at least half the time, and making at least one of those swims without them a quality, race-specific effort. But in my nearly 20 years of racing triathlon, I can think of only maybe 5 races outside of Kona that I've raced in that have not been wetsuit legal.

I know there are going to be folks here who are going to flame on me anyone else who wears them and just say to learn to swim better. My pants help me swim faster. Faster is more fun. Do I swim without them? Yes. Do I swim slower without them? Yes. Do I swim *worse* (ie: technique) without them? I'd say that's debatable.

But the bottom line is that if I know my upcoming races are going to be wetsuit legal, I'm definitely using them more often than not.

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_________________________________
Steve Johnson
DARK HORSE TRIATHLON |

Thanks for your post, lightheir! Yeah, it's key if you are going to do a significant portion of your training with a pull buoy or buoyancy shorts to establish proper zones for that set up. I do 80/20 training. So, if someone were going to do training with and without sim buoyancy they'd need zones for each. But that can get complex, and begs the question why not do it all, with one set of training zones, one way. And if you are going to do it one way, isn't with sim buoyancy the way to go. That's what the 80/20 coaches think makes the most sense. I have a pair of sim shorts on order and will give it a go... We'll see...

About 5 years ago I wore the Roka Sim Shorts ALL the time and in my 25 yard pool - my times came down as you would think: 1:22 100’s became 1:18’s and 1:17.. that sort of thing.

I wore them ALL the time.

I felt a bit guilty but could not stop wearing them.

I also had my BEST swim results ever and often leading the male 35-50 pack or AG 40-50 OWS consistently.
I also wore a SailFish wetsuit - which to me was the fastest I had ever used but chewed up my neck something fierce.

Then I finally went off them cold turkey and have never had the same results in triathlons.

Probably not the normal result, but it was my result and I do not come from any swim background.

Adult onset swimmer.

Just my experience.

So you are pretty much trying to sell us why us should use these shorts all the time, why open a thread to ask for opinions? Your road to TT bike is not a great analogy, completely different positions and biomechanics. If you are worried about wetsuit, then train with the wetsuit, but the shorts give you the extra buoyancy and speed without really addressing issues such as restricted shoulder and arms mobility.

I know a guy that regularly places at USAT Nationals who wears them for every swim practice

You are going the speed you do in the swims because your engine is big (Edit: This is based on some rowing times you posted for your size that you spoke about...you don't go that fast at that size without a massive engine), but you're swimming slow for your engine. If you improve your body position you will go faster.

To the OP, even if your body position is good, you are losing some conditioning by not having to use your core more actively during training. The payback of conditioning of the core and the legs from actively using them in swim training will carry over to overall racing. A few swims in wetsuit or the shorts and you're good to go for the wetsuit race.

Sometimes I use them for recovery. Sometimes the day after a race I want to take it easier but not take the day off entirely so I will wear neoprene shorts at masters swim practice to make it easier. I don't have to worry as much about maintaining form to still make interval.

They do make me a few seconds per hundred yards faster. If I am trying to get a real workout in I don't wear them.

This is my feeling. As an AOS, engaging my core more during sessions is way more valuable to me than "getting used to a wetsuit." I mean, who really has a handicap (barring shoulders/arm constriction) when you slip on a wetsuit? It's like arguing that we should all be training in carbon-sole race shoes to get used to carbon sole race shoes.

I'll take the core strength in training and the free race speed on race day. And the $300 in my pocket.

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

The argument of ‘adaptation’ is utter BS.
The whole body position is different with a full wetsuit. Not just hips and legs.

The bolded above is finally getting to the ulterior motives of wearing them in a group practice.
I always see these shorts on middle age/older guys in the medium-fast lanes. That suit and/or medium long fins.
Everyone knows why these ‘guys’ are wearing them.

And what’s wrong with moving down a lane or two on recovery days?
Or up a lane bringing up the rear on intensity days?

Fragile Egos.

What about buoyancy shorts and a pull buoy?

What about buoyancy shorts, a pull buoy and paddles?

What about buoyance shorts, a pull buoy, paddles, and a snorkel?

Some serious fun with that setup!

Not all of the time.

And for those from the harder is better camp, how about some IM action with a 40 lb kettleball tethered to your ankles. Isn't that how Kornelia did it?

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http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast