To Obree?

Not close at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ9H0INZ2_s&ab_channel=EnduraOfficial


Watch this, it answers the question. Put simply the Superman position was 50w slower.

Have seen this in the past but hardly a fair comparison. The new tech setup has a deep front wheel, disc rear and aerofoil frame shapes.

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are you asking about obree or boardman's position?

Some of the pros at Kona were pretty stretched out. No superman, but longer than normal.

Not going full superman but moving the elbows forward has a tendency to pull the shoulders forward as well, narrowing them into the lauded 'shrug'. I would suppose a first-pass optimization length is the one that gets the narrowest shoulder width.

Yes the new parts are more aero, but the body on top is still the same.
So I would question that changing a wheel at the front and adding a more aero frame changes the dynamics of the position.
The proof, as they say is always in the pudding. Duct tape, a T handled shovel and a straight road is all you need...:0)

Do you mean like this:


I works pretty well for him

I feel like Joe Skipper is getting closer and closer to the superman position over the years. He just went to the windtunnel in his latest video, curious if he comes out of that more or less superman'y.

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Not so much. The point with superman isn't about stretching the arms forward. it's stretching and (crucially) elevating them so that they are in line with the upper torso thereby forming one big long shape. The photo above this one showed it well. A rider like skipper stretching his arms forwards above though (with the arms still acting in front of the thighs) isn't really adopting the superman principles at all.

The helmet dates this 2015 ish (or newer). With the exception of the ridiculously long rear derailleur cable, this guy was really operating outside the box.
Where's this from? Can you tell us more about this?

I'm not sure if aero positions are something that warrants gatekeeping. Just because he's not in the classic Boardman/Obree superman doesn't mean he's not closer to superman than most traditional positions.

The benefits of such a hybrid position really come down to turning the upper arms more into an ellipse and drawing the shoulders forward and closer together. Putting the arms directly horizontal is great for upper body aerodynamics but leaves the hips and legs completely exposed.

That is Brian Francis.

One of the fastest 55+ Age Groupers that I know. All arounder and really nice guy.

It's not so much that I'm arguing about the merits but more so defining what it actually was. Having the arms in a hybrid position though (a position I ran myself for 2-3 years back in 2015 - until I established it was crap when at yaw) may obviously have merits but isn't what the superman position was originally about. I guess my point was really about semantics in this instance.

Thank you! Good for him!!
Every now & then I get the itch to build a SoftRide - might be the impetus I need - but, unfortunately, most of them are sized for 650 wheels.

Data from the Endura windtunnel video would seem to indicate that Obree egg + modern bike/kit = winner winner chicken dinner.

Superman...not so much.

-bobo

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"What's good for me ain't necessarily good for the weak-minded."

somebody already mentioned it above... the superman vs. modern position comparison from endura is very... misleading.

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This is the entire point of “high hands”… the hands aren’t high at all, it’s the shoulder angle that is open.

Waaaaay more comfortable and more powerful and aerodynamic to boot. We can do this because we aren’t restricted by UCI rules.

E

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I was going more off of the difference (30w) in the "1993 UCI Standard" vs "Modern UCI Standard", and figuring what the Crouch in modern configuration might yield.

Superman Old Faithful was so creamed by Crouch Old Faithful (52w), it takes Superman out of the running for any serious consideration.

-bobo

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"What's good for me ain't necessarily good for the weak-minded."

I raced the superman back in 09-'11 and tested it enough to know it was far superior to my regular aero position. I used a very long steam, regular bars and then used pvc to extend the length of the bars.

I never noticed any issue in the stability or handling and raced it up to half-Ironman distance. However, it was extremely uncomfortably on the shoulders and thus, did not contribute to staying relaxed and holding the position well.
I never noticed any issues running off the bike.
The most annoying problems is the length of your bike when you add 18 inches to your bars. Transport in regular cars was nearly impossible.
You were also a long ways from the brakes so that you had to really anticipate any issues and come out of the bars.
I eventually tried Obree's egg position and found it both faster, more sustainable, easier to pack in cars and much safer. I can get to my brakes faster from the egg than a person on normal aerobars.
The speed difference between the superman and the egg was significantly less than between the superman and normal aerobars.

I remember reading about this guy and looking up some of his splits. If I recall correctly he demolished some bike courses with this position.

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