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Re: I blame the right more, but I still blame the left [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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BarryP wrote:
Bernie fans who wouldn’t vote for Clinton. The court would be 5:4 liberal instead of 6:3 conservative.

RBG for not retiring.

Breyer is 83 years old. Is he going wait until the GOP win before he dies? Or will he retire, preferably before the midterms so that we don’t have another pick stolen.

Clinton herself was the problem, the poster child for how the Democrats allowed this to happen. It's honestly sickening to hear people trying to blame Sanders or his supporters as somehow being the problem. How about instead of blaming perhaps a few % points of likely voters who were Sanders supporters who would not vote for Clinton, instead of Clinton herself being so uninspiring she couldn't muster another 50,000 apathetic people (unlikely voters) to come vote for her? That whole narrative is that Clinton isn't actually to blame for her failure to win an election against the most reprehensible candidate to ever have a major party nomination. Sorry, she and those that got her nominated are 100% to blame and the fact that this is even a point of debate is why the Democrats continue to lose at everything important. Excuses are for losers, which the mainstream Democratic party clearly is. Maybe if Clinton had offered something meaningful to Sanders he would of had a reason to rally support for her, instead Clinton and the party offered him nothing in recognition of his influence, and that pure arrogance is part of the Clinton (mainstream Democratic party) problem.

Absolutely agree on RBG. As much as people love RBG (for good reason) her failure to step down during the Obama administration is absolutely critical to the current situation coming to pass. What I would like to know more about, is was there any kind of Democratic party strategist who even tried to talk RBG into stepping down, or is the party just so hapless they didn't understand the liability of not replacing her under Obama? How seriously was this discussed inside the party and with RBG, I would be very interested to know what discussions did or did not take place.

As far as the "stolen appointment", at the time I said the Democrats should have done anything (shut down the entire government indefinitely) to prevent the Scalia seat not being filled Garland or some other Obama nominee. It was this important and what the Republicans were attempting simply had no precedent, they had no legs to stand on if they were forced to sit in the spotlight. The Democrats gave lame excuses about decorum and were perhaps overconfident Clinton would win, and here we are. Likewise for the RBG replacement. I could perhaps accept the Republicans getting away with one of these, but it is 100% the Democrats fault they both happened. Based on what happened this week, how can anyone say the Democrats tried hard enough to stop one or both of these?

The Republicans basically endorsed an attempt to overthrow the election to get what they want and the Democrats were not even willing to shutdown the government (which has been done many times and is absolutely in bounds under the current political paradigm) to keep balance in SCOTUS.

So I put 90% of the blame on the left. The Republicans did this in plain sight, over many years and the Democrats didn't stop there.
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Re: I blame the right more, but I still blame the left [southpaw] [ In reply to ]
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southpaw wrote:
mauricemaher wrote:
BarryP wrote:
Bernie fans who wouldn’t vote for Clinton. The court would be 5:4 liberal instead of 6:3 conservative.

RBG for not retiring.

Breyer is 83 years old. Is he going wait until the GOP win before he dies? Or will he retire, preferably before the midterms so that we don’t have another pick stolen.


I honestly don’t know if it’s constitutionally possible down there but something more than a two party system ***might*** work. Ie traditional Democrats, communist Bernie loving democrats, traditional or true republicans and then Trumpers…maybe a Green Party etc….

Is this technically impossible? Or deemed unpalatable enough to be realistically impossible?

Maurice


Not impossible at all. In fact there are a number of parties outside of the two major ones. It's just that, in a practical sense, our voting system forces us to coalesce around two parties. If we had ranked choice voting it might be different.

The present way elections are conducted really eliminates third parties because they can't compete financially with the billions of dollars worth of free media coverage given to the two parties. Trump knew that and ran as a Republican despite not really being a Republican either then or now. Even Bernie runs as a Democrat because he'd get no attention otherwise. The real third party choices get so little media coverage no one knows them or what their views are.

Don

Tri-ing to have fun. Anything else is just a bonus!
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Re: I blame the right more, but I still blame the left [DieselPete] [ In reply to ]
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DieselPete wrote:
BarryP wrote:
Bernie fans who wouldn’t vote for Clinton. The court would be 5:4 liberal instead of 6:3 conservative.

RBG for not retiring.


I had close friends who proudly voted for a third party candidate because they "just couldn't vote for Hillary." They also were 100% sure that she was going to beat Trump. They wanted to have their cake and to eat it too. I almost begged them to vote for her and to assume they were voting for the open SC seat and the next one or two that would likely come open. Again, thinking Hillary would win, they basically laughed in my face.

So, yes, I blame them. And if one of them posts on social media about their disappointment with this decision, I will rip their ass for all to see. When I see them again I will personally thank them for the mess we're currently in.

And do I, as a liberal, blame RBG?

Yes. I always thought, and said, that it was the height of arrogance for her to not retire the day that Obama won his second term.

I would never have voted for Hillary either, but my vote for Johnson had no impact. She won my state easily.

Don

Tri-ing to have fun. Anything else is just a bonus!
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Re: I blame the right more, but I still blame the left [tri_yoda] [ In reply to ]
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tri_yoda wrote:
Excuses are for losers, which the mainstream Democratic party clearly is. .

I am going to stop you right there. 40% of Americans love the biggest whiny bitch on the planet. A man who even before the 2016 election was getting his excuses lined up.

Everyone loves an excuse. Everyone wants to blame someone else.

So come up with a better theory than “excuses are for losers”.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: I blame the right more, but I still blame the left [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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BarryP wrote:
Nutella wrote:
BarryP wrote:
Bernie fans who wouldn’t vote for Clinton. The court would be 5:4 liberal instead of 6:3 conservative.

RBG for not retiring.

Breyer is 83 years old. Is he going wait until the GOP win before he dies? Or will he retire, preferably before the midterms so that we don’t have another pick stolen.


Breyer already announced his retirement. He is being replaced by Justice Jackson. He steps down next week.


I guess I should pay closer attention. Good on him.


Breyer's retirement was announced for him. Same could have been done fro RBG.
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Re: I blame the right more, but I still blame the left [tri_yoda] [ In reply to ]
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tri_yoda wrote:
BarryP wrote:
Bernie fans who wouldn’t vote for Clinton. The court would be 5:4 liberal instead of 6:3 conservative.

RBG for not retiring.

Breyer is 83 years old. Is he going wait until the GOP win before he dies? Or will he retire, preferably before the midterms so that we don’t have another pick stolen.


Clinton herself was the problem, the poster child for how the Democrats allowed this to happen. It's honestly sickening to hear people trying to blame Sanders or his supporters as somehow being the problem.

Because after the primaries the choice was only Trump or Clinton. It was foolish to think your principles or your apathy made Trump an OK alternative to Clinton, whatever her shortcomings were.
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Re: I blame the right more, but I still blame the left [Tri2HaveFun] [ In reply to ]
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Tri2HaveFun wrote:
DieselPete wrote:
BarryP wrote:
Bernie fans who wouldn’t vote for Clinton. The court would be 5:4 liberal instead of 6:3 conservative.

RBG for not retiring.


I had close friends who proudly voted for a third party candidate because they "just couldn't vote for Hillary." They also were 100% sure that she was going to beat Trump. They wanted to have their cake and to eat it too. I almost begged them to vote for her and to assume they were voting for the open SC seat and the next one or two that would likely come open. Again, thinking Hillary would win, they basically laughed in my face.

So, yes, I blame them. And if one of them posts on social media about their disappointment with this decision, I will rip their ass for all to see. When I see them again I will personally thank them for the mess we're currently in.

And do I, as a liberal, blame RBG?

Yes. I always thought, and said, that it was the height of arrogance for her to not retire the day that Obama won his second term.

I would never have voted for Hillary either, but my vote for Johnson had no impact. She won my state easily.

I, and the left-leaning people I was trying to convince to not vote third-party, live in Florida. We knew going into the election that our state could be a nail-biter.
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Re: I blame the right more, but I still blame the left [tri_yoda] [ In reply to ]
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Clinton herself was the problem, the poster child for how the Democrats allowed this to happen. It's honestly sickening to hear people trying to blame Sanders or his supporters as somehow being the problem. How about instead of blaming perhaps a few % points of likely voters who were Sanders supporters who would not vote for Clinton, instead of Clinton herself being so uninspiring she couldn't muster another 50,000 apathetic people (unlikely voters) to come vote for her?


There's no single person or group of people to blame. But this whole idea that so many on the left have, which is "give me an ideal candidate or bust,"......well congratulations, you got bust.

The government is WAY overrepresented by conservatives. Hell, the US is 23% Catholic, yet 67% of the SC is Catholic.

And it's largely because the left just simply cannot get their shit together.

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
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Re: I blame the right more, but I still blame the left [DieselPete] [ In reply to ]
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DieselPete wrote:
Tri2HaveFun wrote:
DieselPete wrote:
BarryP wrote:
Bernie fans who wouldn’t vote for Clinton. The court would be 5:4 liberal instead of 6:3 conservative.

RBG for not retiring.


I had close friends who proudly voted for a third party candidate because they "just couldn't vote for Hillary." They also were 100% sure that she was going to beat Trump. They wanted to have their cake and to eat it too. I almost begged them to vote for her and to assume they were voting for the open SC seat and the next one or two that would likely come open. Again, thinking Hillary would win, they basically laughed in my face.

So, yes, I blame them. And if one of them posts on social media about their disappointment with this decision, I will rip their ass for all to see. When I see them again I will personally thank them for the mess we're currently in.

And do I, as a liberal, blame RBG?

Yes. I always thought, and said, that it was the height of arrogance for her to not retire the day that Obama won his second term.


I would never have voted for Hillary either, but my vote for Johnson had no impact. She won my state easily.


I, and the left-leaning people I was trying to convince to not vote third-party, live in Florida. We knew going into the election that our state could be a nail-biter.


One of my FB friends kept posting meme after meme of how much Joe Biden sucks after he won the primary because he really wanted Bernie Sanders.

It is absolutely mind boggling that anyone would want to try to help Trump get re-elected simply because they didn't get their favorite candidate.

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
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Re: I blame the right more, but I still blame the left [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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BarryP wrote:
Quote:
Clinton herself was the problem, the poster child for how the Democrats allowed this to happen. It's honestly sickening to hear people trying to blame Sanders or his supporters as somehow being the problem. How about instead of blaming perhaps a few % points of likely voters who were Sanders supporters who would not vote for Clinton, instead of Clinton herself being so uninspiring she couldn't muster another 50,000 apathetic people (unlikely voters) to come vote for her?



There's no single person or group of people to blame. But this whole idea that so many on the left have, which is "give me an ideal candidate or bust,"......well congratulations, you got bust.

The government is WAY overrepresented by conservatives. Hell, the US is 23% Catholic, yet 67% of the SC is Catholic.

And it's largely because the left just simply cannot get their shit together.

Why do you assume that Catholic = conservative? Both Pelosi and Biden are Catholic. "U.S. Catholics are split down the middle politically. Around half of Catholic registered voters (48%) describe themselves as Republicans or say they lean toward the Republican Party, while roughly the same share (47%) identify with or lean toward the Democratic Party, according to Pew Research Center polls in 2018 and 2019."
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Re: I blame the right more, but I still blame the left [NormM] [ In reply to ]
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Why do you assume that Catholic = conservative?


I don't.

But I do assume that the 6 justices who overturned Roe V Wade and were appointed by Republican presidents are conservative. And even though you can be catholic and pro choice, the church itself has historically taken a very anti-choice stance for as long as I can remember.

Also, it's a cult that protects pedophiles, but that's a different topic altogether. I mean, sure, pedophiles deserve representation, too. But SEVEN of nine?!

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
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Re: I blame the right more, but I still blame the left [NormM] [ In reply to ]
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NormM wrote:
BarryP wrote:
Quote:
Clinton herself was the problem, the poster child for how the Democrats allowed this to happen. It's honestly sickening to hear people trying to blame Sanders or his supporters as somehow being the problem. How about instead of blaming perhaps a few % points of likely voters who were Sanders supporters who would not vote for Clinton, instead of Clinton herself being so uninspiring she couldn't muster another 50,000 apathetic people (unlikely voters) to come vote for her?



There's no single person or group of people to blame. But this whole idea that so many on the left have, which is "give me an ideal candidate or bust,"......well congratulations, you got bust.

The government is WAY overrepresented by conservatives. Hell, the US is 23% Catholic, yet 67% of the SC is Catholic.

And it's largely because the left just simply cannot get their shit together.


Why do you assume that Catholic = conservative? Both Pelosi and Biden are Catholic. "U.S. Catholics are split down the middle politically. Around half of Catholic registered voters (48%) describe themselves as Republicans or say they lean toward the Republican Party, while roughly the same share (47%) identify with or lean toward the Democratic Party, according to Pew Research Center polls in 2018 and 2019."

The most Catholic states are such conservative places like Massachusetts, Rhode Island, New Jersey, Connecticut, New York, and California. 42% of Rhode Islanders are Catholic, 34% of Massholes are.

Only 19% of non-Hispanic whites are Catholics, and whites are the most conservative group. 55% of Hispanics are Catholic. And only 5% of Blacks and Asians are Catholics.
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