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Re: Zwift is jumping headfirst into the hardware business [Callin'] [ In reply to ]
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Callin' wrote:
trail wrote:
Can they set aside $1M to fix having to exit Zwift before doing a 2nd workout or event? Or having to first fly to, say, Virginia for a 10-second stopover before catching a connector to Yorkshire for a Harrogate race?

???

You can definitely do a workout, finish it, then do another workout without having to quit and restart zwift.


Maybe go to the linked feature request page and explain how then?
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Re: Zwift is jumping headfirst into the hardware business [NordicSkier] [ In reply to ]
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NordicSkier wrote:
lassekk wrote:
NordicSkier wrote:
They best be careful not to make Zwift proprietary to specific hardware, or only allow certain features for Zwift hardware users.

I do think they are going for a more immersive experience with steering, braking, etc integrated.


So all the things most people don't care about or can/will afford... I really hope not.
Just fix the samn game and crappy UI.

Yeah, frills are nice, but the core product is the most important thing.

One feature that would be great is microphone input so you can chat with friends instead of using discord, or chat with anyone in the app, provided you can modify privacy settings to disallow it.

Also, integration with VR goggles might be cool. You could look around as you ride.

VR support has been there since day one actually. it's just locked behind a debugger flag. We've demoed it before. But it's definitely one of those "cool in theory" type of experiences. People fell off the trainer regularly during those early demos. Plus sweating inside the VR headset is awful. if you saw the VR demo that red bull did with santa cruz staring Danny MacAskill - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn3mFyU-8dc - you can see the complete setup needed.

As someone who has crashed on his rollers trying to "take a turn" while Zwifting, I can assure you that VR is not really something that people actually want except when they write on user forums...

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Zwift is jumping headfirst into the hardware business [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
Callin' wrote:
trail wrote:
Can they set aside $1M to fix having to exit Zwift before doing a 2nd workout or event? Or having to first fly to, say, Virginia for a 10-second stopover before catching a connector to Yorkshire for a Harrogate race?

???

You can definitely do a workout, finish it, then do another workout without having to quit and restart zwift.


Maybe go to the linked feature request page and explain how then?

MENU --> WORKOUTS (on the right hand side near PAIRING / CHALLENGES / ACHIEVEMENTS / GARAGE) --> (pick new workout)

There are some legitimate complaints in that thread. The biggest one being around event registration. And also with how certain activities are *CREDITED* - if, for example, you are doing Zwift Academy; if you do two workouts back-to-back in the same session, you won't get credit for both *in the Academy*. So there's a lot of conflation of issues. I'm not saying the UX is great; but many of the things people are saying cannot be done actually can, or the very specific cannot-be-done doesn't actually apply more broadly.

But the "how to do two workouts in a single session" one is super easy. Likewise, you can also definitely do two events; you just NEED TO BE SIGNED UP FOR BOTH BEFORE YOU LOGIN. And, again, the same "you won't get credit in Zwift Academy for both" applies.

The not forcing people to quit on Mac/PC is actually more complex than we thought it might be. We obviously don't force you to logout on iOS/Android; but we've seen more bugs than we're comfortable with when enabling that on Mac/PC.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Zwift is jumping headfirst into the hardware business [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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But Elite now has that steering doohicky that zwift racing supports though.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: Zwift is jumping headfirst into the hardware business [Callin'] [ In reply to ]
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Callin' wrote:
trail wrote:
Can they set aside $1M to fix having to exit Zwift before doing a 2nd workout or event? Or having to first fly to, say, Virginia for a 10-second stopover before catching a connector to Yorkshire for a Harrogate race?

???

You can definitely do a workout, finish it, then do another workout without having to quit and restart zwift.

once you complete a workout you'll be shown a ride report like usual. click OK and you should then be back on the road, with no workout and just open riding.

from there, bring up the menu where the bottom two choices are "back" and "end ride". to the right you should see pair/garage/workouts etc. go to workouts, pick your new workout.

it should then bring you back to the splash screen where you have the "back" and "end ride" options on the bottom. select "back" and you should be back on the road with the new workout loaded and ready to start. I'm on an appleTV and that's how I do it, anyway.

the world's still turning? >>>>>>> the world's still turning
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Re: Zwift is jumping headfirst into the hardware business [Callin'] [ In reply to ]
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Callin' wrote:
Callin' wrote:
trail wrote:
Can they set aside $1M to fix having to exit Zwift before doing a 2nd workout or event? Or having to first fly to, say, Virginia for a 10-second stopover before catching a connector to Yorkshire for a Harrogate race?


???

You can definitely do a workout, finish it, then do another workout without having to quit and restart zwift.


once you complete a workout you'll be shown a ride report like usual. click OK and you should then be back on the road, with no workout and just open riding.

from there, bring up the menu where the bottom two choices are "back" and "end ride". to the right you should see pair/garage/workouts etc. go to workouts, pick your new workout.

it should then bring you back to the splash screen where you have the "back" and "end ride" options on the bottom. select "back" and you should be back on the road with the new workout loaded and ready to start. I'm on an appleTV and that's how I do it, anyway.

Doing another workout is easy. Joining another event, in particular one that has already started, requires a complete restart.
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Re: Zwift is jumping headfirst into the hardware business [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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Or changing routes/worlds.

Strava
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Re: Zwift is jumping headfirst into the hardware business [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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TheStroBro wrote:
Or is it that hardware manufacturers are jumping further into the software business? Specialized was part of this round of investment.

Thought the exact same thing when I saw this. Smart of Specialized.



I miss you "Sports Night"
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Re: Zwift is jumping headfirst into the hardware business [msaad7] [ In reply to ]
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I'm in the market for a Zwift-capable treadmill, so I certainly wouldn't mind if they went that route. Creating their own bike trainer would be a mistake, there are so many out there right now. But there are precious few good Bluetooth-capable treadmills (at least in my research).

- John
"Have courage, and be kind."
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Re: Zwift is jumping headfirst into the hardware business [tttiltheend] [ In reply to ]
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The whole Zwift experience as it exists now is a hodge-podge of code built on top of the original coding that the triathlete guy (Jon Mayfield) built years back and showed on Slowtwitch. No one expected the popularity the program has had. The company did not start with a proper development core, and they have just been tacking more and more features onto the old code to try to keep up with the popularity and feature requests. This is why you get weird aspects to using the program like having to quit out of the program to change worlds or events.

Are they building a new version from scratch? I hope so, because I don't see how they keep advancing the program without that.
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Re: Zwift is jumping headfirst into the hardware business [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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When VR reaches Star Trek holodeck technology, THEN we'll be good to go.
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Re: Zwift is jumping headfirst into the hardware business [Quo Vadimus] [ In reply to ]
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Quo Vadimus wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:
Or is it that hardware manufacturers are jumping further into the software business? Specialized was part of this round of investment.


Thought the exact same thing when I saw this. Smart of Specialized.

The big thing people are also missing here is connecting the dots with what Zone 5 Ventures owns and is a part of already. Specialized is doing a lot of smart things here, and that will likely become much more evident soon.

Jim Vance
http://TodaysPlan.com.au (Disclosure: I am contracted with Today's Plan)
http://www.CoachVance.com/
Twitter @jimvance
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Re: Zwift is jumping headfirst into the hardware business [JimVance] [ In reply to ]
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Oh like Today's Plan? Nice hint!

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: Zwift is jumping headfirst into the hardware business [nightfend] [ In reply to ]
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nightfend wrote:
The whole Zwift experience as it exists now is a hodge-podge of code built on top of the original coding that the triathlete guy (Jon Mayfield) built years back and showed on Slowtwitch. No one expected the popularity the program has had. The company did not start with a proper development core, and they have just been tacking more and more features onto the old code to try to keep up with the popularity and feature requests. This is why you get weird aspects to using the program like having to quit out of the program to change worlds or events.

Are they building a new version from scratch? I hope so, because I don't see how they keep advancing the program without that.

The entire platform is a buggy, sloppy mess and building hardware makes software and infrastructure look easy. I can't imagine they turn out anything of interest that isn't OEMed.
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Re: Zwift is jumping headfirst into the hardware business [USCoregonian] [ In reply to ]
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USCoregonian wrote:
nightfend wrote:
The whole Zwift experience as it exists now is a hodge-podge of code built on top of the original coding that the triathlete guy (Jon Mayfield) built years back and showed on Slowtwitch. No one expected the popularity the program has had. The company did not start with a proper development core, and they have just been tacking more and more features onto the old code to try to keep up with the popularity and feature requests. This is why you get weird aspects to using the program like having to quit out of the program to change worlds or events.

Are they building a new version from scratch? I hope so, because I don't see how they keep advancing the program without that.

The entire platform is a buggy, sloppy mess and building hardware makes software and infrastructure look easy. I can't imagine they turn out anything of interest that isn't OEMed.

As someone who actually works with the code on a daily basis, I am well aware of the bugs and the tech debt that we have. However, I also see what comes into firebase. And I also have my own experience. For the first six months I rode zwift - before I worked there, I always dual-recorded to a head unit, because no way I trusted a video game to not crash and lose my ride. But zwift never did. And I said to Jon, I probably wouldn't be working here if that happened with any sort of regularity. And, to this day, with over 20,000km ridden, I've literally never had zwift lose a ride of mine. Now, I know it happens. Believe me. I've written code that has caused user crashes. And I hate that. Because I know how that would make me feel. But I also know that we are - literally - well over 99.95% crash free in terms of activities. I play plenty of games from major studios that don't even come close to that.

Most of what I think people are frustrated with is actually bad UX. Like having to quit the game to change routes. That's annoying. But I would - and do, daily - draw a very hard line between UX issues and bugs.

It's also a significant misstatement to refer to Jon Mayfield as "the triathlete guy." Jon has actually never done a triathlon, though he plans to. What Jon has done for almost 30 years is build video games. And most of that time has been spent as someone who has built and worked within game engines. The original Zwift code was built by someone who - at that time - had 20 years of experience building AAA games and - critically - the foundational platforms they are based upon.

Likewise, on the hardware side, the hardware team is led by someone with decades of experience building fitness hardware. Surrounded by a team of engineers and industrial designers from that industry.

I truly do understand everyone's frustrations with Zwift and also realize that it's easy to make hyperbolic potshots on an internet forum. But I'd also say that Zwift has not raised in excess of $500M by being a "buggy, sloppy mess." And there are *parts* of the code that I do hope we rebuild from scratch - and we have and we are. But we also deliver a pretty damn good experience to a ton of users every day, and I'm proud of that. And I fully expect the same from our hardware when it arrives.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Zwift is jumping headfirst into the hardware business [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
Can they set aside $1M to fix having to exit Zwift before doing a 2nd workout or event? Or having to first fly to, say, Virginia for a 10-second stopover before catching a connector to Yorkshire for a Harrogate race?
Bet that 1m could also fix the truly awful Windows codebase. Zwift does not play nice when the user is not local administrator. Among other things. White papers and documents exist for a reason, people. Read them and then get to work, vs making best guesses and assumptions and then it is too late to fix later.
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Re: Zwift is jumping headfirst into the hardware business [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
USCoregonian wrote:
nightfend wrote:
The whole Zwift experience as it exists now is a hodge-podge of code built on top of the original coding that the triathlete guy (Jon Mayfield) built years back and showed on Slowtwitch. No one expected the popularity the program has had. The company did not start with a proper development core, and they have just been tacking more and more features onto the old code to try to keep up with the popularity and feature requests. This is why you get weird aspects to using the program like having to quit out of the program to change worlds or events.

Are they building a new version from scratch? I hope so, because I don't see how they keep advancing the program without that.

The entire platform is a buggy, sloppy mess and building hardware makes software and infrastructure look easy. I can't imagine they turn out anything of interest that isn't OEMed.

As someone who actually works with the code on a daily basis, I am well aware of the bugs and the tech debt that we have. However, I also see what comes into firebase. And I also have my own experience. For the first six months I rode zwift - before I worked there, I always dual-recorded to a head unit, because no way I trusted a video game to not crash and lose my ride. But zwift never did. And I said to Jon, I probably wouldn't be working here if that happened with any sort of regularity. And, to this day, with over 20,000km ridden, I've literally never had zwift lose a ride of mine. Now, I know it happens. Believe me. I've written code that has caused user crashes. And I hate that. Because I know how that would make me feel. But I also know that we are - literally - well over 99.95% crash free in terms of activities. I play plenty of games from major studios that don't even come close to that.

Most of what I think people are frustrated with is actually bad UX. Like having to quit the game to change routes. That's annoying. But I would - and do, daily - draw a very hard line between UX issues and bugs.

It's also a significant misstatement to refer to Jon Mayfield as "the triathlete guy." Jon has actually never done a triathlon, though he plans to. What Jon has done for almost 30 years is build video games. And most of that time has been spent as someone who has built and worked within game engines. The original Zwift code was built by someone who - at that time - had 20 years of experience building AAA games and - critically - the foundational platforms they are based upon.

Likewise, on the hardware side, the hardware team is led by someone with decades of experience building fitness hardware. Surrounded by a team of engineers and industrial designers from that industry.

I truly do understand everyone's frustrations with Zwift and also realize that it's easy to make hyperbolic potshots on an internet forum. But I'd also say that Zwift has not raised in excess of $500M by being a "buggy, sloppy mess." And there are *parts* of the code that I do hope we rebuild from scratch - and we have and we are. But we also deliver a pretty damn good experience to a ton of users every day, and I'm proud of that. And I fully expect the same from our hardware when it arrives.

Thanks for chiming in. I do agree that it is actually fairly stable, as I can't recall any chrashes myself. Just as it is not really bugs that annoy people rather than UI/UX things.

A common seen one is why is it hard to implement distance to go when riding a route, when all the code is there including lead in(untill X route actually starts), from the races. There you have the distance etc. That is a UI issue I presume?
If UX is then only seeing last 30 days PRs instead of all time or both, or having to exit to change world or start a new route so be it.
I just think people like to zwift it is awesome and want the full experience and for 99'95% of users tdf races, active steering etc. Comes lower on the priority list so why is the UI things not addressed first.
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Re: Zwift is jumping headfirst into the hardware business [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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I do like the way Zwift records the ride as it progresses. If there is a crash, it is easy enough to find the activity file, do a few small date fixes and still be able to upload it to Strava.

Look, I have used Zwift since beta, so I understand where the software has been (at the time there was nothing like it. It put the Computrainer software to shame). I just feel like the company for the longest time had a small business attitude towards development and it has hurt them. I really hope the code can be patched and many of the legacy issues that the community continually talks about addressed.
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