18km/h is more like 11m/h

As a dutchman I have to react ;-)

Uhh, not quite..

There are living area's where there's a restriction on the speed for motorists.

The biggest parts of the country have no such limit. On the other hand, there are bike-paths in abundance, often separated from the road in it's entirety.

Like this:
https://www.tubantia.nl/...~a801a198/153827780/

I am not aware of any speed limit here for motorized traffic around bicycles; only thing I can think of is a 25km/h speed-limit for mopeds/scooters on designated bike-lanes.

Furthermore you should know that by law all "weak" traffic (bicycles, pedestrians etc) are protected meaning that a motorist will always be liable to any accident involving such "weaker" traffic (best-case for the motorist is a 50-50 outcome when the cyclist or pedestrian was really negligent; in case of children, the motorist is always 100% liable!).

On non-regulated crossing; traffic from the right (bicyle, car but NOT pedestrian) will always have right of way.

I think you correctly converted 30km/h to "about 19mph" and then made a typo entering the original figure?

30km/h = 18.6mph
18km/h = 11.2mph

You're being generous. I was way off while thinking of 3 x 6.2. My mistake.

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Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.

Thankfully you said something. When something is printed in what I would consider a reliable source, it's fantastic to hear from someone who lives there.

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Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.

You might want to reconsider what you consider a reliable source.

The way you do it seems more reasonable. While riding this morning, it occurred to me that what you call "weak" traffic would be given leeway. Even as a motorist, I would rather know that it would be my fault in court and drive more carefully around cyclists or pedestrians. Some/many people do drive like that out of courtesy, it would be great if everyone did.

Thank you for letting us know the legal background too.

Is there a concern about helmets? Over here it's practically a taboo and considered reckless not to wear a helmet as falling while doing a track stand at a stop could kill a person.

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Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.

Well we do have our issues as well regarding cyclists; they will run red lights do diagonal crossings, don't have lighting, use cellphone etc. All while being "protected" by law :-)

Helmet use for regular transportation is close to non-existent. Only for speed-pedelecs it is mandatory (and actually used as well). Younger children (under 7 or so) occasionally do use helmets though.

On race/MTB bikes though almost everyone will use therir helmet, although not regulated by law, all clubs and events require this. Also the cycling magazines will only show pictures of cyclists with helmets

Motorcycle police chased me down for no lights over there.

Also, you guys have redlight and speeding cameras for automobile enforcement. Here in USA, pro reckless driving groups have killed these in California and Texas

They've been voted out in parts of Florida where officials were found to have tampered with the timing of yellow rights to increase the amount of revenue generated by the red light cameras. https://www.techdirt.com/...0410/011257809.shtml

I remember seeing stats showing that these redlight cameras in the US had essentially zero impact on traffic safety and incident reduction, and ultimately became nothing more than revenue generators for the police and the private company that provided them. I'm glad they are gone.

The did have an impact, just not in the direction intended (more rear-end crashes at stoplights). Most red light tickets were for right turns.

Let me refine that. Art. 185 Wvw (dutch law) states that in case a motorized party (strong) and the non-motorized party (weak) have an accident, and the weak party is the claimant, than de strong party is liably. The one exception is in case of 'force majeure' (overmacht in Dutch) in which case the strong party is not liable. Force majeure is a reallllllllly seldom a succesfull defence, since it is clearified in case-law that you can only succusfully defend yourself if the behaviour of the weak party is utterly stupid. Normal 'stupid' behavior like crossing a red light, beining druk, no light, etc., is not rare enough to succesfully defence yourself with force majeure (ibaiscally meaning that the strong party should anticipate on this stupid behavior and therefore cannot claim force majeure, since the behavior of the weak party is more or less foreseeable).

If the strong party is liable (almost always), than there is the possibilty for the strong party to claim negligence on the part of the weak party. That can however only a maximum of 50% against 14+ persons, and is non-existant against minors under 14 years old.

Futhermore, if the outcome of the defence is 'not satisfactory' than a correction (in favor of the weak party) can be in place. There are certain criteria for that, but I won't I'll leave it at this for the moment.

BUT: art. 185 Wvw only applies directly if the weak party is the claimant. If the strong party is the claimant, than claim will be based on 6:162 BW. The weak party can be held liable for the damages of the strong party. However, normally not up to a 100%, because the spirit of art. 185 Wvw reflects on 6:162 BW (the 50% rule does not reflect).

Disclaimer for those Dutch people out there in the legal field: translating legal terms in English proved to be quite difficult :)

Disclaimer 2: motorized traffic is futher clarified in law and case-law. Electrified bicycles until 25Kph are regarded to be not motorized (an exception) in the light of 185 Wvw, faster e-bikes are regarded motorized. A motorized step or lawnmower are regarded (and are off course) motorized. A tram/metro is regarded not be motorized, but in case-law normaly is treated as being motorized (but over 6:162 BW, not via 185 Wvw).




[edit] More on-topic: helmets are normaly not worn by regular cyclists. Only by speed-pedelecs and MTB/Race-cyclists.

Increased minor rear end incidents, decreased major head on incidents...

My observation of how they ride in the Netherlands was that first, very few were trying to win the Tour de France, today. It was all very calm and matter of fact.

They rode "sit up and beg" bikes (both sexes) and their pedal speed was sedate. During rush hour there were more bikes than cars and many carried kiddies in a variety of ways.

I also noted that many turned left at lights, by stopping in the bike lane on the opposite side and then waiting for the light to change. So no turning left from the center lane. Very safe. I use it all the time on really busy intersections.

In the Netherlands motorist speed limits are 50k/h (31mph) within city limits, 80 (50mph)outside city limits, in some urban areas there's a reduced speed of 30 (19mph) , cycling on highways is prohibited. Cyclists don't have right of way but must obay traffic laws like everyone else. Accidents do happen frequently, yet it is uncommon to wear a helmet unlike neighbouring countries like Germany.
I'm guessing in those countries bikes are more commonly used for sport instead of daily commuting and grocery shopping. I guess nobody wants to walj around at work all day with helmet hair :)

The Netherlands, in particular the middle and west regions, are densely populated. (411inhabitants per sq kilometer and around 1000 inh. per sq km in the middle and west provinces. USA = 33inh/sq km.) towns and cities are relatively close to eachother and roads are saturated with traffic. Cycling is a logical option for daily commute to work and errands like groceries. I live in a city and it takes me less time to take my heavy duty steel frame cuty bike with kiddy seat to the kindergarden and then to work then it takes me to drive there during buisy traffic hours. So in densely populated areas lots of people commute by bike. Due to traffic problems this is stimulated by the authorities. Parking in the inner cities is very expensive. My city has recently opened the worlds largest bike parking where you can park your bike safe and for free. It is open 24 hours a day and has room for 12 500 bikes. This is a city with about 353.000 people. (The second largest with room for 10 000 bikes is located in Tokio (13million inhabitants.))
The bike parking is only one of many and a way of the city to try and reduce the number of cars in the city.

On the other hand, recent studies have shown that around 40% of people commuting by car live within a 10km radius from their work. If they'd use bikes all our rush hour traffic jams might be instantly solved.