Not necessarily the exact scenario you are asking, but still applies.

For years I chased KQ'ing. Competing in the Ironman World Championships and Kona where interchangeable to me and the only thing in triathlon I hadn't been able to do yet. Got married in 2021, we had a baby in 2022, and last year I finished at Chattanooga as the first person in the OA standings to NOT get a Kona slot. The plan was to go back to Chattanooga this year and try for Kona 2024.

I got offered the Nice slot when they added them to races and decided to take it. A big part of the thought process is that Kona isn't guaranteed in 2024. The number of slots for my race that's less than 6 months away are still not announced. I have no clue if it's going to be ridiculously hard or easier to qualify with the male only race in 2024. Also, life has change and I'm not able to train like I used to and at the end of the day chasing down racing specifically in Kona isn't as important as my other commitments. My wife and I want to try to have another baby next year and I realized we'd either have a new born or my wife may be very pregnant around the time of Kona and it wouldn't be the icing on the cake trip that I have been chasing in my triathlon career.

I've never been to Europe and really excited about the venue. I've talked to a few friends who have done both Kona and did 70.3 Worlds in Nice and both said they loved the Nice venue.

So after Nice I'm going to seme-retire from Ironman distance racing til we are done having kids and they older, but I feel like I'm getting to do it on my terms of checking all the boxes I wanted to with Ironman racing.

Last Fall I went to Kona on vacation. I have never qualified for a World Championship although I did race the St. George World Championship last year. After vacationing in the Big Island, which was awesome, both my wife and I agreed that racing a World Championship there would be a freaking nightmare.

The start/finish line is a very small and compressed space that is hard to reach even on non-race days. The Queen K highway is congested as a rule, and I can't even imagine what it would be like during race week. The Kona area is so small that it really would be horrible to stay anywhere close to downtown during the race. The locals HATE the race. Trust me, I talked to quite a few of them about it and they hate the impact on the island during race week.

Finally, the course. It's meh. I swam about half the swim course and the swim is pretty and enjoyable but there are much prettier locations. I would say Sand Hollow and CDA are much prettier. The bike and run courses are downright boring. So, the only real reason to go is for the history of it all. Paying over $10K and suffering some of the worst race inconveniences are not worth that to me.

Now Nice, if I had a slot to Nice I would probably take it. That is probably one of the most awesome locations I can think of for a race. If the choice was Kona or Nice my recommendation, all day long, would be to take that Nice spot. Kona is a great vacation spot but a terrible one for a large event like a World Championship.

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http://dontletitdefeatyou.blogspot.com

You don't do Kona ( WC ) for race atmosphere and logistics you do it to compete with the best in the world.

If you had a slot to Nice you would probably take it?

Why not just do the June race there if you are looking for experience rather then competition. Save 900 $ and do that exact same venue and course.

just curious.

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

For the pros this statement is correct. For age gropers not so much. In any given year a very large portion of “the best” in an AG will sit out the WC. For a large portion of “the best”, Kona is cost prohibitive and this is one of the main reasons a WC should rotate around to different geographic locations.

My point here is that racing any WC as an age grouper is racing a subset of good guys your age that had a chance to prioritize that race. This will be the case for Kona, Nice, ITU worlds and so on. The only thing that made Kona special was exclusivity (as a fixed WC location). I think it is a good thing that this now looks to have ended.

Edit: I was qualified for Hawaii 2023. Now I am all in for Nice.

My question was for him as he states he is racing more for location and experience but will only go to nice if it’s a world championship. Sounds more like clout then competition haha

I have never meet a triathlete that went to kona and didn’t train much harder then all other Ironman races so I would say that everyone there is making sure they are more competitive then other races.

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

I'll be your N=1 then. Qualifying race was the major goal. Kona was the celebration. I'm a fringe qualifier that's 30 minutes from the AG winner on a good day and was never going to be anywhere close to the front of the field in Kona. So the training for Kona was to have a respectable mid-AG finish and not be totally destroyed for the week of vacation that followed.

SO you used your increase training to get a spot because like you said you are I'm a fringe qualifier that's 30 minutes from the AG winner on a good day.

Which means you did more to be part of the WORLD CHAMPS. Then you do for a normal race.
Your day of going easy because you are not going to be competitive at the front is fine but then would you do NICE Ironman this year. Yes / no.
Would you do Ironman NICE WC this year is given a spot? yes / no

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

I'm done with 140.6 for a long time. That said, I'd rather do IM Nice than IM WC in Nice, mostly due to the cost difference.

I actually loved the WC atmosphere at St. George. It is definitely much nicer than a regular IM. So, as far as the two WC locations (comparing WC venue to venue), I would choose Nice over Kona. I really think most AG'ers go to the WC for their individual experience than for the level of competition on that particular day. Your average AG'er probably looks at the WC as the victory lap for the incredible effort it took to get there. Thus, the experience on the day is important. I think Nice would offer a much better experience than Kona. Probably worth the extra $900 for the WC vs the regular race in Nice.

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http://dontletitdefeatyou.blogspot.com

The first time that I ran Boston, I ran it about 35 minutes slower than my qualifying time. I was taking it all in and enjoying the experience.

I just got a Nice slot. First time ever getting a qualifying slot. I'll probably will never ever get a qualifying slot again. I'm planning to race it at about 60 minutes+ slower than my qualifying race. Just like Boston, I'm planning to take it all in and enjoy the day vs running myself into the ground.

The only place that I plan on going all out for is the Ironman store :)

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My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."

Depending where you qualified you maybe 60 minutes slower with a harder performance on the nice course.

Good luck it will be a tough day, at the Ironman store too. Once you get that credit card bill.

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

For me it’s going to Nice too.
The fact that Nice is just a 6h drive from home and that I probably couldn’t afford the travel and accommodation to Kona made the decision easy.
Yes I could have raced the « regular » Nice for half the price, but I’m betting the atmosphere of the WC will be unique.

Now you're exaggerating. The sea swim in the bay has no particular difficulty, the run is flatter than flat. The only real difference is the bike course, but it would be a stretch to call it a mountain stage. And it's notoriously short. A well trained FOMOP AGer should not lose an hour on the bike portion, unless taking it way easier than on the qualification race, even if this one was flat. Obviously, if a heat wave strikes on race day, things are different, but that would not be a fair comparison.

If he qualified in Cozumel or arizona. in 10 hours. 60 swim 5:20 bike 3:40 run.
That same effort will be 11 hours in Nice. 68 swim, 6:00 bike 4:00 run.

Why is that hard to understand. now he said he plans to go 60 min slower then his Personal best which maybe now even slower as the more time you spend on your legs in the heat as he day goes the harder it gets even pacing. wise levels keep dropping for everyone the longer time goes by.

e.g.
brent mcmahon arizona 2016
swim 48, bike 4:18 run2:40 finish 7:50

brent mcmahon 2018 iroman canada course
swim 51 bike 4:43 run 2:53 finish 8:31.

so if he can't go the same speed on an easy course vs hard course at top performance then would "A well trained FOMOP AGer"

The nice swim bike will be harder then all but 2 other ironman races in the world and the run could be very very hot.

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

How does the Nice bike course compare with the St. George WC bike course? That one just about killed me...

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http://dontletitdefeatyou.blogspot.com

I am not sure I haven’t done the nice full just 70.3 worlds 2019.

That said look at the top pro times and compare that to yours and add a few percent for being out there longer etc.

Utah had downhills with zero brakes needed so rolling momentum into the next climb and maximum power to speed for so much vertical. I think the nice course has some lost speed on the downhills.

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

Interestingly my experience is the sum of what you both are saying. I've genuinely struggled to qualify and only made it thanks to smart race selection and "COVID slots". Then in Kona 2022 I was top 10% in my AG, 5% male. It surely isn't explained just by "victory laps". Before you ask, I didn't dramatically increase my training in 2022. In fact, my hours of training in 2022 are lower than 2021 due to COVID and long COVID.

This is how I explain it.

I think it's true that some people take it as a victory lap but those people are still going to be very fit and competitive, especially if they qualified in the same year of Kona.

Most people simply blow up for a multitude of reasons ("make it or break it approach", they can't handle the heat, wrong nutrition/hydration strategy, they didn't acclimatise enough to the island, etc.).
Racing in Hawaii is a very different thing from what most are used to. In Kona 2022 I literally passed hundreds of people in the last 40k of the bike and the whole run. Everybody was smashing the first 50k of the bike though.

There's definitely a sub section of the best age groupers in the world who compete at the WC and the IM WC is the most competitive long distance race but many stay out because of the cost and logistics required to attend a race in Hawaii (especially if you're European) and to perform there (extra days to acclimatise). Having raced Kona 2022 I wouldn't have done Kona in 2023 but I will try to qualify for and compete in Nice. I'll also be doing Ibiza.

To conclude, the reality is that while the majority of Kona slots have always been assigned in the USA, the majority of the fastest athletes are in Europe.

I think Nice IM WC 2023 is going to be interesting.

Not sure why you pick Cozumel and its notoriously short swim for comparison... And not sure either why the run would be 20 minutes longer in Nice than Cozumel, considering the similar elevation profile and the fact that it's as hot or even hotter in Cozumel than in Nice... Anyway...
For reference, I have a 45 minutes time difference between Roth and Nice, with same fitness.

Easier swims and bikes save legs for the run.

The longer your bike time the more leg reps on the cranks = increase leg fatigue and less muscle stores for the run, more dehydrated for the run. Less mental fortitude when a personal best or goal is not in the line once the clock and paces show to goal is out of reach, why suffer?

So your Roth was 45 min faster than nice. At same effort . And this was brought up as someone asked I am going to go and just do a slower effort and be an hour slower. Which is why a slower effort at nice could be way more then 1 hour difference it you qualified on an easier course

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter