My thought on flip turns vs. open turns is that flip turns are better. Not faster when you just learn but they do make swimming better and more fluid. It takes a bit to learn but even bad flip turns help keep swimming seem less wasteful. I learned to swim at 24 basically and didn't flip turn until 26-27 because I didn't want to take time to do it. Then I started swimming with a swimmer and we swam at the same paces a lot of the time but once we got to the wall he smoked me. I am still not the best at under water but swimming seems more enjoyable and makes me feel like more of a swimmer too.

I would practice it by doing like one flip per 100 or so then 2 then 3. This way I had time to catch my breath since it does take some time to learn how breath into and off of the wall. But I would learn it if for nothing else than to just learn it. I don't see a drawback of open turns but I also don't see any drawback of flip turns as well.

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Twitter - Instagram

Guilty as charged. The solution (for the wall resters) is a 50m pool.

My watch is a 910 with the quick release, the only "tell" in the lot
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If you have a 520 bike computer, why would you need the quick release. Put the other band back on and never(-ish) worry about the watch again.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

Because the 910 is my racing watch. It goes from the swim to the bike to the run in a triathlon. But that's about the only time it gets used in the first 2 sports. I guess I should swap bands for now and just put the quick release on when I race, but that seems like too much work for something that doesn't really matter.

The 910 is about on its last legs anyway, so it will probably get swapped for a 735 someday soon.

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"...the street finds its own uses for things"

I think it depends, most people it doesn't take long. A little off topic but my girls have been doing tumbling and gymnastics for years... flipping, turning, twisting completely fine for them. They'd try to get me to flip (on our trampoline) and I just felt odd doing it.

When I finally learned flip turns I got it right off the bat in like 30 minutes going through a progression or forward rolls and then mixing in the wall. It still felt odd for me, something about me doesn't like the sensation of tumbling forward. Fast forward maybe six months and I do them okay, still a work in progress. Dolphin kicking is next!

One benefit to flip turns I've found is that I'm not taking "breaks" every time I get to a wall. At first I felt really out of breath and my warm up laps got interesting as I noticed the difference in taking breaks every 25 vs. not.

I second lightheir's suggestion that you accelerate into the wall. I'm an adult onset swimmer who learned to flip last year after swimming for 5+ years doing open turns and the acceleration into the wall really helped me get it down. I do (and have seen others do) a single dolphin kick close to the wall to get that extra speed and it really helps. Flipping has definitely helped me with my breath control- it still challenges me when I'm doing hard sets but I feel like flipping has made me a better swimmer.

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"One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time."

Hello.

First post.

Confession: I am "just a swimmer". I used to be a hardcore runner. I have many friends who are triathletes. :)

When searching the internet for good information about swimming or learning flipturns etc I have often found slowtwitch to be most useful. (USMS forums recently converted to USMS members only. I'm Canadian.) So I thought, why not register here?

This is an excellent thread with many wonderful contributions. Thanks folks.

I'm 59, and I have "been a swimmer" for just over 2 years now. (I ran a 10k in 31:09 when Mulroney was PM.)

I am exactly one week into doing flipturns at every wall in every session. (6 sessions so far.) There has been some hardships with breathing, and some epic fails on many of the turns, but overall, some improvements and optimism. I already feel my brain and oxygen intake system being rewired. I feel my abs working harder and getting stronger. I'm thrilled that my last session saw a 1:20 100m, with 2 out of the 3 turns being decent. (PR is 1:16 with the microbreak turns - my word for open turns - call them what they are.)

I know that I will eventually overtake my microbreak times at all distances, but this will take much time and patience. The longer the distance, the harder it is for me, at this early stage. My big dream is sub6min 400m by age 60.

I have no clue about dolphin kick. YouTube and this forum will be my friends.

I agree with those who say that flipturns will help anyone trying to do OW swimming. I know from experience in the lake, that the microbreak every 25m contributes to pure shock and awe when suddenly that luxury does not exist. The continuity that flipturning provides will prepare you for OW much more effectively. After just 6 sessions, I already feel like a much better/different swimmer rhythm-wise. Losing that microbreak is HARD!! There's no doubt about it. Many will give up. (I did 3-4x previously. Not this time!)

So give it a tri (cough cough). Be patient. Stick with it. Don't get depressed that your times early in flipturning will lag your microbreak times.

Anyway....I will have some specific questions soon. I just wanted to introduce myself, say thanks, and give some initial thoughts from a newbie-ish masters swimmer.

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I only swim.
I used to run. (31:09 10k)
I never did Triathlon.
Sue me.

I'm an open turn swimmer and have experience with both Polar (M, V, V2) and Garmin (945, fenix 5/6). All Garmin devices have been consistently more accurate at counting lengths/laps than the Polar lineup. Just my experience...

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tinman

^^^^This.

Fairly easy to learn the basics, but harder to master. There is also dealing with the fact that you don't get a breath at the wall. It took me a good six months to get used to the hypoxia, and when swimming at altitude I still alternate flip and open turns to keep from going anaerobic.

I've always run Garmins, and haven't had a problem with them detecting flip vs. open turns. A strong push off the wall is a little extra insurance that the accelerometers in the watch will detect the turn.

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

welcome. this is a pretty good place for newish swimmers to learn, because most of triathlon's adherents were not swimmers by avocation.

folks here advocate for open turns from time to time, but that is less and less the case. open turns provide a rest. actually, in a way, any turn provides a rest. at least flip turns exact a cost.

the thing about flip turns, the muscular requirement is very minor. mostly it's a case of using your momentum into the wall to power the turn. that is a head scratcher for many folks, kind of like the notion of translating speed in the run-up to height during the high jump. easier said than done. nevertheless, that's it. too many people swim toward the wall, stop, curl up, and then try to do a somersault-in-place. it's more like a truck with 3 trailers doing a U-turn. the truck is already most of the way thru the turn and the third trailer (the legs) are still traveling toward the wall.

but, as i said, easier to explain than to perform.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I love that analogy, thanks.

I found the May fishy thread. I'll report my progress there. Week 2 of Flipturn School begins tomorrow!!

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I only swim.
I used to run. (31:09 10k)
I never did Triathlon.
Sue me.