**Definitely frustrating being that they have HAD months to get it done. Also I don’t understand why they don’t have a fallback route already approved. Seems to me you could avoid a ton of headaches with a 2 or 3 loop course contained in the Woodlands and one county. Cut out a lot of headaches. Wouldn’t be ideal but get it approved, draw up the maps, update the athletes guide, and have it ready to go at the drop of a hat should all one loop options fail. **
Read this part of the article over carefully:
“The challenge the organizers now face is getting the routes approved by the respective authorities in time.
**“This is a hugely complicated matter,” **said Mark Seegers, spokesman for Harris County Precinct 4 Commissioner Jack Cagle. Seegers said that Cagle’s office has received a formal request from the race organizers and will expedite the permitting process as best as they can, but had no estimate of how long the process might take.”
This is NOT an easy process. It never is in race/event management. It involves many people. Approvals and permits for these things take an extraordinary amount of work.
If you are entered into the race, you need to know that ALL of this hard work is going on to have some kind of race for you. And when they do, what-ever it is, make sure you thank as many people involved with the event as you can.
I appreciate what you’re saying, but really, the different parties - notably WTC - who are working to find a solution are motivated by profit-and-loss. They are trying to save the race because of business reasons (immediate business and I’m sure hoping to create/keep longtime customers). If I paid $$$$$$$$ to an organization who promised an event- and who stood to profit from it - I would expect that race to happen. I’m sure a lot of folks are working feverishly to put it together - but THEY ARE PAID TO DO THAT. That’s their job. Why should I thank them when I put up big money for their event and not another?
If this was purely non-profit, all volunteers… yes, I think you’re spot on.
I appreciate what you’re saying, but really, the different parties - notably WTC - who are working to find a solution are motivated by profit-and-loss. They are trying to save the race because of business reasons (immediate business and I’m sure hoping to create/keep longtime customers). If I paid $$$$$$$$ to an organization who promised an event- and who stood to profit from it - I would expect that race to happen. I’m sure a lot of folks are working feverishly to put it together - but THEY ARE PAID TO DO THAT. That’s their job. Why should I thank them when I put up big money for their event and not another?
If this was purely non-profit, all volunteers… yes, I think you’re spot on.
Dan,
Wow!
Can I ask what sort of business or work you do? Just curious. Do you thank - customers, vendors suppliers? Do you thank those along the way, whoever, or whatever their role in your success? Good grief. The “wins” in my business are few and far between, and I am going all-out, to Thank anyone even remotely connected with the, “win”!
With all due respect your whole premise and point is a bit moot, events of this size and scale are always run by professional event management organizations. And even if it’s a say, large charity bike ride, so yes, it’s “non-profit”, there is often brought in a professional event management to run it, or the charity has people paid and working full-time on it internally.
As to your very last comment, you know that Ironman, just like EVERY endurance sports event depends of hundreds if not thousands of volunteers.
That article kinda makes me feel worse about the situation.
Yep, does not paint an optimistic picture…“Process like this usually takes months to plan and permit”… “We will take any route”…
Geezzz…
Also the part about having answers in the coming weeks … That makes it sound like they aren’t going to make a call on this until the absolute last minute, and that we may not know anything for a while. As someone who is doing her first IM in 15 years (!), this is disconcerting and demoralizing. At this point, I just want to know one way or the other.
I agree. The lack of any official communication on this topic so far is unacceptable in my opinion.
I find your failure to communicate about the status of this year’s Ironman Texas race to be extremely disrespectful to those of us who are registered to participate in the event. I understand that you likely are doing everything in your power to attempt to get approval on a safe, 112-mile bike course, and I also understand that some things are out of your control. Your communication with us, however, is entirely within your control, and in that regard I believe you have failed miserably. Many of us have invested significant amounts of time and money in preparation for the May 14 race and have dedicated hundreds of hours to training for the event, often in harsh winter conditions. In my opinion, your failure to communicate with us about the status of the event shows a complete and utter disregard for our situation. I understand that at this time you may not have definitive information to provide about whether you will have a safe, approved 112-mile bike course for the event, but you are in a position to communicate with us about the status of your efforts, and about the backup plans you are considering. For instance, you have the ability to let us know whether you intend to cancel the entire event if a 112-mile bike course is not approved, or whether you are considering instead holding the race as a swim/run event or are exploring options for a shortened bike course. You also have the ability to let us know what options currently are available for a possible 112-mile bike course, and the likelihood that any of them will come to fruition. In light of the fact that the race is scheduled to take place in just 4 1/2 weeks, I find your decision not to communicate with us about these topics to be highly unprofessional, utterly insensitive and disrespectful, and otherwise egregiously inappropriate.
Sincerely,
A formerly loyal but now disgruntled Ironman® triathlete
I think on FB the guy in the photo said some guy was taking pictures and asked him to hop on his bike for a couple quick shots. It’s wasn’t during a race, just a random day at the park or something.
**Definitely frustrating being that they have HAD months to get it done. Also I don’t understand why they don’t have a fallback route already approved. Seems to me you could avoid a ton of headaches with a 2 or 3 loop course contained in the Woodlands and one county. Cut out a lot of headaches. Wouldn’t be ideal but get it approved, draw up the maps, update the athletes guide, and have it ready to go at the drop of a hat should all one loop options fail. **
Read this part of the article over carefully:
“The challenge the organizers now face is getting the routes approved by the respective authorities in time.
**“This is a hugely complicated matter,” **said Mark Seegers, spokesman for Harris County Precinct 4 Commissioner Jack Cagle. Seegers said that Cagle’s office has received a formal request from the race organizers and will expedite the permitting process as best as they can, but had no estimate of how long the process might take.”
This is NOT an easy process. It never is in race/event management. It involves many people. Approvals and permits for these things take an extraordinary amount of work.
If you are entered into the race, you need to know that ALL of this hard work is going on to have some kind of race for you. And when they do, what-ever it is, make sure you thank as many people involved with the event as you can.
I am entered in this race and have been since I signed up the day before last years event. Maybe it’s just me, but the word “thank” is not exactly the word that I am thinking of using at present.
At this point all I really want is some communication from Ironman. Anything really. Others have contacted them directly and have gotten canned responses about the published bike course being the one we ride “unless otherwise informed”. We know this is obviously a lie, so why not communicate what they know and what they are trying to do?
We are fast approaching race day, and we are all hitting peak training. That doesn’t help our mental states any, and on top of this the uncertainty here is not helping matters.
I would feel much better just to have SOME communication on the issue.
Dangerous use of the word volunteers there, Steve.
It’s very questionable as to whether the current model of volunteer labor by a for-profit corporation will continue to be allowed. Still a question of law that has yet to be answered, as Liebesman was dismissed on a technicality but leaves open the denial of summary judgment granting that it is indeed a question of law as to whether a race series is a business open for a year, or if each event is to be treated independently (and therefore excepted under FLSA from wage and hour law).
Now, as we know, most of the large running events in the US are actually organized by 501(c)(3)s (New York Road Runners, Boston Athletic Association), which then permits the use of volunteer labor in certain circumstances. But we’ve got a unique issue in triathlon with regard to for-profits utilizing free labor to put on their events.
It’s going to be interesting to see who the next case winds up coming against.
Back to thread topic:
I think, as many have pointed out, the issue is in the lack of communication. Anybody who has wanted to find out information about the issue has been able to. I think WTC feels that not responding helps prevent panic about the event being cancelled. However, IMO, this is a mistake on their PR/marketing department; the info is out there. The lack of communication is unhelpful at best.
My spitball speculation:
40% - race is cancelled.
20% - race is a full 140.6
40% - race is full swim, 40-60K bike, marathon.
**Dangerous use of the word volunteers there, Steve. **
Ryan,
Good point - However the entire infrastructure and economy of endurance sports races/events and other similar events from local charity runs right on up to the Olympic Games, is based on people volunteering. No volunteers, and those races/.events don’t happen.
I asked several pro’s this weekend if they had heard about the course issue. Everyone of them responded with words to this effect “I’ve heard something about it…but am not concerned…we will all race the same course”. These Pro’s include top contenders to win the thing. I can appreciate type A triathletes wanting to know every detail, but the speculation and doomsday talk on here is doing nothing but hurting you mentally. Focus on what you can control…your fitness. Keep training and let WTC figure it out, it’s what you paid them for.
Sure they do. It changes the economic model of them.
You can have people volunteer in non-essential positions. But essential ones (swim safety; course marshals; heck, even aid stations would be essential for the purposes of insurance) would need to be paid single-day employees.
This is part of the reason why I think, if you put on triathlons, you’d be insane not to be a 501(c)(3). You can still make a ton of cash at the top, your charitable purpose can be nothing more than “supporting fitness initiatives in the community,” and you can wind up never granting money out, all under the banner of being a 501(c)(3). It also tends to make your permitting experience easier and can wind up with discounts on municipal services.
I asked several pro’s this weekend if they had heard about the course issue. Everyone of them responded with words to this effect “I’ve heard something about it…but am not concerned…we will all race the same course”. These Pro’s include top contenders to win the thing. I can appreciate type A triathletes wanting to know every detail, but the speculation and doomsday talk on here is doing nothing but hurting you mentally. Focus on what you can control…your fitness. Keep training and let WTC figure it out, it’s what you paid them for.
That is good advice since the athletes are not really in a position to do anything. On the other hand, the pro is in a very different position. They pay one price to enter any WTC race they want. They train at a high level for most of the year and race repeatedly. And their goals are very different. They are trying to earn money and/or points, as opposed to the majority of the amateur field that simply wants to finish a FULL ironman and may not have another opportunity this year or the next few years depending on their situation. Bottomline, if WTC doesn’t come through with a full race, that simply changes the race dynamic for the pro (who will be racing again in the next month or two) while for the age grouper the result might be they did not achieve their goal of finishing an IM without an asterisk…and a long gap until the next one.
I asked several pro’s this weekend if they had heard about the course issue. Everyone of them responded with words to this effect “I’ve heard something about it…but am not concerned…we will all race the same course”. These Pro’s include top contenders to win the thing. I can appreciate type A triathletes wanting to know every detail, but the speculation and doomsday talk on here is doing nothing but hurting you mentally. Focus on what you can control…your fitness. Keep training and let WTC figure it out, it’s what you paid them for.
Focusing on what you can control is good advice, even if it’s hard to follow.
That being said, comparing pros to age groupers in this case is apples to oranges. For a pro, this is just one more race, even if it’s a “US championship”. They do a lot of these, and it’s not a huge deal if there’s a change or cancellation. Many (most?) age groupers do these very infrequently and it takes significant commitment and family sacrifice to prepare. A cancellation is a huge deal. This is likely my last IM for quite a few years as I plan on focusing on my family and two young kids. If this one doesn’t happen, it’ll be several years before I can even think about signing up for another. In the meantime, I’ve already committed significant time and effort to training, while asking my wife to pick up a lot of extra slack. To go through that for nothing would be a pretty big let down.
Agree they aren’t concerned about it being a “Full” and they race many different races…but there is nothing anyone can do right now to change what the outcome will be. Stress harms the body, don’t let it.
Good insights and I understand we are totally speculating. But I do hope that at the same time WTC is trying to resolve this year’s crisis that they are quietly scoping out an alternative venue to put the Woodland’s politics behind them. Worst case scenario is to lose IMTX altogether since it’s the only IM in NA for the first half of the year. Maybe this will motivate WTC to also start looking for another spring venue besides Texas.
Put St. George back to a full!
I bet less than 750 would sign up. We had 900 in 2012 the last year and 30-40% DNF’d it.
I think IMAZ should go back to the Spring date it had years ago.
I asked several pro’s this weekend if they had heard about the course issue. Everyone of them responded with words to this effect “I’ve heard something about it…but am not concerned…we will all race the same course”. These Pro’s include top contenders to win the thing. I can appreciate type A triathletes wanting to know every detail, but the speculation and doomsday talk on here is doing nothing but hurting you mentally. Focus on what you can control…your fitness. Keep training and let WTC figure it out, it’s what you paid them for.
Focusing on what you can control is good advice, even if it’s hard to follow.
That being said, comparing pros to age groupers in this case is apples to oranges. For a pro, this is just one more race, even if it’s a “US championship”. They do a lot of these, and it’s not a huge deal if there’s a change or cancellation. Many (most?) age groupers do these very infrequently and it takes significant commitment and family sacrifice to prepare. A cancellation is a huge deal. This is likely my last IM for quite a few years as I plan on focusing on my family and two young kids. If this one doesn’t happen, it’ll be several years before I can even think about signing up for another. In the meantime, I’ve already committed significant time and effort to training, while asking my wife to pick up a lot of extra slack. To go through that for nothing would be a pretty big let down.
+1
This is a “Life Event” for many age groupers. For the pros, it’s just a business trip where a modified course is akin to your flight being delayed a few hours.
Ironman has marketed the hell out of 140.6. If you do that, you better be able to provide 140.6 (except for acts of god) or be prepared for some serious backlash.
I asked several pro’s this weekend if they had heard about the course issue. Everyone of them responded with words to this effect “I’ve heard something about it…but am not concerned…we will all race the same course”. These Pro’s include top contenders to win the thing. I can appreciate type A triathletes wanting to know every detail, but the speculation and doomsday talk on here is doing nothing but hurting you mentally. Focus on what you can control…your fitness. Keep training and let WTC figure it out, it’s what you paid them for.
I don’t know who you talked to, but ones that I talked to are already making back up plans. Many are looking at heading to Brazil instead if the race gets cancelled, most have already thrown their names on other starts lists like Lanzarote. The reason they might not care as much, is because they can still sign up for other races very close to the IMTX date. but yes they are thinking about the race possibly being cancelled