i m sure having a powermeter would scare the shit out of me as last year, the first 20 minutes had a lot of 300-500 watts reading on the srm…
Funny Mark Cavendish said this about one of the stages in the tour when the hammer was put down his SRM wasn’t going below 500 watts so he had to go back to the team car to get some tape to cover it up as it was doing his head in.
And you expected something else, considering it is coming from a horses Arse
.
I thought we had an agreement that you would email me and let me know when you were supplying comedy and completely hijacking a post? Damn you…
chris
the reason i chime in (i won’t speak for anyone else) is because i think your obsession with numbers goes too far. i think there are other perspectives on how to maximize performance. a powermeter is potentially a useful tool, but there are many other tools i would find to be more useful. i don’t doubt your interest, but if you’re that passionate about it, then you shouldn’t mind defending your position. i learned to not mind being questioned about my coacing philosophies because it was a chance to back it up and make sure i knew the reasons for what i was doing.
the men’s pro race in hawaii is a completely different dynamic. trying to compare jordan’s race in canada (or anywhere really, because he can’t swim with the front pack) to that scenario is ridiculous. if you want to be competitive in hawaii you have to go hard at the beginning and make the train. the benefit is more than worth the cost. and using hauth as an example doesn’t work either. he raced age group last year.
finally, no disrespect to jordan, but i would say based on his previous performances this summer he should have ridden a hell of a lot faster in canada. didn’t dan say as much in his pre race prediction. so if his numbers back up your data, then i would say my hunch that your numbers put unnecessary limiters on performance is correct.
Brent, I have no problem with you telling me that my obsession with numbers goes to far if you actually knew me. However, you don’t really know me. How do you know I don’t use other tools? Do you have some secret insight into my life? You draw this conclusion from threads on a forum?? Hmmmm… Didn’t it cross your mind that maybe I only share what I know about a PM on a forum because I see a lack of knowledge in this area specific to triathlon? Yet I don’t see a lack of knowledge to the same degree elsewhere with other tools? Cycling, in general, has been covered extremely well from guys like AC but but I’m talking strictly about triathlon which is a completely different sport than cycling.
Have you not been reading my posts or am I just that bad at communicating the message? I’ve already stated that I believe IMH is a completely different dynamic. And who said I was comparing Jordan’s file at IMC to an IMH scenario?? Where are you getting this stuff??? It’s like you’re cross-posting or something or you haven’t read the entire thread.
Btw, speaking of IMH, does it not hurt to see whether the numbers jive with this supposed reality? You clearly didn’t understand why I used Hauth as an example. I said it depends on the individual which means we could be talking about an AGer or we could be talking about a Pro. I’m not focusing only on Pros – I’m focusing on all types of individuals. Note: The only thing I will say about IMH is what I already said:
“So, dynamic race tactics at IMH might not play as much of a factor in your variability as it would be in your overall profile.” (allow me to emphasis might) Meaning, you may very well still see low VIs but declining profiles will prevail. Again, it’s not blanket statement. It’s just a suspicion I have. Even if I’m wrong it’s hardly a big deal. The focus isn’t on how to produce the best results at IMH. It’s how to produce the best results at IM, in general.
Hey, so here’s the challenge… All you have to do is throw me 3 or 4 Pro power files from IMH. That should be easy, right? I’m even giving you all the opportunity to look at the file before you send it me. I’m just interested in seeing the variability, that’s all. We all know what the power curves look like…
Ok. This is going to sound totally arrogant but I think it’s important in creating or establishing credibility. I’ve qualified for Kona 3 years in a row and I’ve been doing IM for 4 years. Not bad for a guy who’s supposedly overly obsessed and blinded by numbers. Now you can believe that I’m genetically gifted and successfull in spite of my preparation and execution but then I’d suggest you take a good hard look at my background first and talk to the guys and gals out there who really know me before you draw any conclusions. They all pretty much live in a little tri mecca called Sammamish, WA. This little town has been quite notorius for producing a number of Kona qualifiers.
Thanks, Chris
Hey Paulo, Chris is not saying “become a slave to numbers”. While I don’t neccessarily train like he does, and frankly based on Jonnyo’s descriptions of what you make him do, what I do is very similar in both training and racing, many of us still see value in Chris’ analysis.
Dev
Want to know what’s funny? If I had to describe my training, that’s how I do all or most of my race-specific training too… I only do structured short intervals (eg 2 x 20s) during my early phase of training (general prep) which means almost all of my race-specific training is done using a PM simply as a “flight data recorder.” I ride completely by RPE and don’t even wear an HRM more than 50% of the time. That’s how obsessed I am with numbers… 
Thanks, Chris
Chris,
Good on you for trying to fight the good fight on ST…I gave up a long time ago.
Ok. This is going to sound totally arrogant but I think it’s important in creating or establishing credibility. I’ve qualified for Kona 3 years in a row and I’ve been doing IM for 4 years. Not bad for a guy who’s supposedly overly obsessed and blinded by numbers. Now you can believe that I’m genetically gifted and successfull in spite of my preparation and execution but then I’d suggest you take a good hard look at my background first and talk to the guys and gals out there who really know me before you draw any conclusions. They all pretty much live in a little tri mecca called Sammamish, WA. This little town has been quite notorius for producing a number of Kona qualifiers.
The King of Sammamish… priceless.
Lakerfan, count me in as a slowtwitcher who appreciates your input and comments on the use of powermeters in racing and training. Thank you.
Hey Paulo, I would have sent this to you in PM, but you have that feature turned off.
You are in the business of triathlon. You are a coaching professional. This forum is all about “your industry”. It is an opportunity to present your company in a professional manner. I realize that the engineer in all of us can get in the way of the businessmen in all of us, however, you can leverage this forum for a lot more goodwill by treating others with respect and thereby associate your business and yourself with positive interactions.
While you may be “full” and can take no more clients at the present time, it costs nothing to invest in goodwill for you brand. Beating up on someone who might be a customer or might refer people to your services is just cutting off a potential channel of marketing and potentially future revenue.
All the best man.
Dev
Lakerfan, count me in as a slowtwitcher who appreciates your input and comments on the use of powermeters in racing and training. Thank you.
Me too, and I don’t even own a powermeter. I wouldn’t have thought that collecting data points would be such a controversy. There’s a lot of belief-based (per Phil Skiba’s blog) people here.
it is easy to conclude that by training and racing with a powermeter you become a slave to the numbers. To some people that takes the enjoyment of riding and racing.
**
We don’t ‘ride’, we ‘train.’
Getting numbers out of a training session - whether pacing or power - and the comparing the improvements to previous workouts is a huge psychological payoff. It is the same way that video games are designed - to encourage you to play in pursuit of a higher and higher score. It is what keeps you coming back. Same thing with golf scores. Some of us don’t do IM for a living and this provides a carrot to keep us to continue to train. It’s quiet awesome to look at where you were and where you are now - and where you can go. You can’t do that without numbers. Philbert - who IS a coach and a damn good and helpfu lone - made his point about this earlier.
And isn’t ‘racing’ all about the numbers? Splits, power, ranking?
Ok. This is going to sound totally arrogant but I think it’s important in creating or establishing credibility. I’ve qualified for Kona 3 years in a row and I’ve been doing IM for 4 years. Not bad for a guy who’s supposedly overly obsessed and blinded by numbers. Now you can believe that I’m genetically gifted and successfull in spite of my preparation and execution but then I’d suggest you take a good hard look at my background first and talk to the guys and gals out there who really know me before you draw any conclusions. They all pretty much live in a little tri mecca called Sammamish, WA. This little town has been quite notorius for producing a number of Kona qualifiers.
The King of Sammamish… priceless.
Nope. That would be Paul Meade or Steve Bailey or Cynthia Krass, imho. I’d throw in Tom Price too but he doesn’t live in Sammamish anymore…
Btw Paulo, do I take personal shots at you? Yes I do. However, it’s the only way I can ever communicate with you. The difference between you and I is that you do nothing but take personal shots at people. Your passion for getting pleasure out of making fun of others is 2nd to none. On the rare occasion when I make that mistake, I deeply deeply regret it.
You’re probably one the the smartest dudes out there. You’re knowledge of the sport is incredible and I’m quite certain you’re an excellent coach. However, none of those things justifies the way you treat others on ST. I know, it’s all a big joke to you and we all just take you too seriously. Just imagine how much you could contribute to this forum if you changed your attitude just a little bit. Why don’t you try it for a week and see if the personal pleasure you get from helping others far exceeds the personal pleasure you get from making fun of others. That would be very cool if you were willing to give it a shot.
I believe in you…
Thanks, Chris
“You are in the business of triathlon.”
Yes
“You are a coaching professional”
No I am not. Also the reasons I post here are not because of business. I coach here because it entertains me. If you ask any of my athletes why they hired me, they will tell you that it’s not because of my posting, it’s because I am a good coach. I am pretty, pretty sure that my posting hurts my business, and you know what… I don’t give a damn!
Anyway, like I said, go back and read this thread or any other thread. Mr. lakerfan has a tendency to get his panties in a knot everytime anyone contradicts something he says. He’s also the first to start with the personal attacks and, because this place is a source of entertainment to me, I have no problem whatsoever in replying to him in the same coin. He amuses me and entertains me with his narrow vision of reality and his unability to take criticism. Also the arrogance he displays in his posts (the credibility of a 3-time Kona qualifier…cripes) makes me look like a choir boy in that department, and I know I have some faults there.
So again, Dev, go back, read his attacks to me, to sinchronicity or to those that contradict him, and send him a similar note than the one you sent me. I know how you like to be a fair person.
Why don’t you try it for a week and see if the personal pleasure you get from helping others far exceeds the personal pleasure you get from making fun of others. That would be very cool if you were willing to give it a shot.
Maybe during that week where I play nice here, I’ll go post sarcasm over at Endurance Nation. Now THAT would be some serious FUN!
CPC for life brother. Some get what we do, some don’t.
Why don’t you try it for a week and see if the personal pleasure you get from helping others far exceeds the personal pleasure you get from making fun of others. That would be very cool if you were willing to give it a shot.
Maybe during that week where I play nice here, I’ll go post sarcasm over at Endurance Nation. Now THAT would be some serious FUN!
You assume your registration in the forum would be approved…
Thanks for the original post. IT was intersting.
And I also love these PS Triathlon marketing strategy threads.
Hate to burst yer Jonnyo love bubble, but, he owns and uses a SRM & a HRM in training.
You can bet yer ass Paulo doesn’t just send him out and say “ride 4 hrs at z2 w/ 3x20 z4 on 5’ RI” and then hope for the best that Jonnyo does this by feel.
Just thought I would let you know that um… you’re wrong. And sorry, you can’t burst my Jonnyo love bubble.
Jodi
Thanks for playing!
I think that completely depends on the individual. Look at Hauth’s ride at IMH:
that is where i’m “getting this stuff.” i didnt sort through the rest of your posts.
chris, i think you’re overreacting. i started by merely pointing out that, in my mind, things like powermeters, lactate analyzers, don’t take the place of a smart coach or athlete using their head. I think that an athlete will be far better prepared to react to the inevitable unexpected during ironman if they have established a good feel for their capabilities. i think that your numbers approach possibly places unnecessary limits on performance. there are so many factors that affect your calculations, that your attempts to define thing down to the watt seem misguided. for example, how do you really know what an athlete’s FTP is on race day? what gains have they made with tapering? how does it change based on the conditions?
i don’t have access to any pro power files from hawaii that you wouldn’t. i think there are some available though, so we can both do a search and see what’s out there.
i’m sure you do a lot of things well. we have essentially agreed on a solid approach to running. i’m just pointing out a few caveats here and for whatever reason it seems to have gotten you all riled up.