Zipp Customer Service (Revisited!)

This post is all about why I will no longer do any business with Zipp… I will not ride their wheels, nor will the shop that I work for carry their products. And the reason is customer service and respect.

I bought a set of 404’s early this season and in the first race that I used the front, I hit a pothole and cracked the rim…no big deal it was my fault, so I contacted Zipp to purchase a crash replacement and sent in a section of the crashed wheel (easy enough right?). Well, two weeks go by and no word from Zipp, so I get ahold of them and they say that they never recieved the section…but low and behold, I never send anything without signiture confirmation delivery…so I kindly directed them to the UPS signiture confirmation webpage! A week later I get an email asking me to take pictures of the rest of the rim section and mail those in to verify…so I did…and finally my new rim arrives the next week. Wow, only took a month and a half and $260w/shipping.

Then, after IM WI (only the second time that I used the rear 404) I found a crack on the rear 404 braking surface. Well, this time I knew the wheel never hit anything (you learn the first time!), so I contacted Zipp again and sent in the rim to be inspected for warranty. This time they got the rim, and contacted me that their ‘tests indicate that the crack is from a crash impact’ and that it would cost another $250. I explained that the wheel was never wrecked, never impacted by potholes, etc. But, they disagreed and then said that customers and dealers aren’t always truthful (always nice to be called a liar!!!).

So, I just wanted to put this out there for everyone else to consider before throwing down $2000 on a wheelset that may not last you 1/2 a season and to be insulted, or ignored. BTW…watch the classifeds section for my Zipp stuff to show up!

Andy

So, whats your thought of me considering there new Z99 zedtech disc and 808 front for 4000 bucks?

Dave

Well it sucks that you had a bad experience, but I have to post that my experience was quite the opposite. The rims were replaced is a very timely fashion, in fact they arrived at my house the day I called to check on them. They were great on the phone and only had the wheels for a week.

Zipp has always been top shelf for me…

Wow, I wish it worked out like that for me!

What is Zipp’s crash replacement policy? Also, how do they tell if the crack was from a crash or just a defect? And what constitutes a “crash”? Hitting a 1/2" pothole? Hitting a sewer drain? Hitting a low spot in the road? Hitting a high spot? Seems to be a very large grey area. I guess if the rims are so delicate that they will crack if, for example, hitting a normal pothole, then maybe they should state that. But what do I know.

my opinion, realizing that you didn’t ask, would that a z99 series disc with an z8 front would be a COMPLETE waste of money. So for an extra 2000 bucks you get 41 grams less in the hubs by way of some fancy ceramic bearings? Where do I sign up?

FWIW, the only reason I’m saying this is that the “regular” bearing zipps are still so freaking fast that it’s hard to imagine that the z series is any (ok, greater than 5 secs / 40k) faster. But it’s your money.

Back to the OP, zipp customer service has been great to me - Ernie

Let me get this straight, you wrecked a brand new $1,000 wheel, and Zipp replaced it for a total cost of $260 with shipping. A replacement cost of about 25% of the alternative which is go buy a new wheel.

then you send them the back wheel from the same set as the first one you wrecked and tell them on scout’s honor that you were not riding it when you trashed the first one, and they tell you that they will honor the crash replacement warranty (as opposed to telling you to take a hike) so you get two new wheels for $500 instead of being out $2K?

I’m just saying that I deal with this sort of thing all the time (selling machinery that magically will break when nobody touched it) and it sounds like yo are getting a pretty fair deal. I know that it was frustrating to wait for the first one, but if you were in that big a hurry why did you wait two weeks to confirm receipt?

I’m not saying, I’m just saying.

If I buy Zipp wheels again, (I had 404s before) it would be fair to say that the money it costs for a few seconds could be gotten free by just training more. But, dont we make money so we can spend it? :o)

Dave

Not quite…perhaps my original post was poorly worded. The front wheel was cracked by hitting a pothole, but I had my Renn disc on the back at that time, not the new 404 rear. And, why would I call to confirm reciept when I recieved a UPS confirmation that it had been delivered and signed for? I figured they had it and were processing it, I just called after two weeks to find out what the status was.

Zipps Policy:

“Our warranty for all products is 1 year against manufacturer’s defects. Eligibility for warranty is determined at the factory by the Zipp Returns personnel. If a manufacturing problem is determined, a proof of purchase date will be requested from you and if you have returned the product within the first year, the policy is to repair or replace the product at no charge. We do not offer refunds. Damaged products not covered under warranty due to accident, misuse, or just plain ol’ bad luck are eligible for our liberal No Fault/Crash Replacement program for up to 5 years from date of purchase. All Zipp products have an intended purpose, if the product is used outside of that purpose, it will not be warranted and Zipp cannot be held responsible for any damage that may occur in the process. Examples of misuse include but are not limited to: mountain biking, tandem riding, and disc brake usage.”

I would be interested to know what the limitations are as well…is a 1/4" crack in the road misuse? Because if so, then yes, I probably misused my wheel at some point.

give me the 4000 bucks and I make a request to get tai started on some special “z” series high speed stickers. You won’t know the difference between the regular zipps and these “matched perfect and staggered special” ones. Everyone will come out feeling good on this one!

Hangdogger,

I’m very sorry to hear that you had a bad customer service experience with us, especially as we really strive to have the best customer service staff in the business, I know that this year we were very strained with the hiring on of 4 new CS staff as well as a moving facilities, as we try to keep up with business demands, all while striving to never put any customer into an automated phone system, the goal is to have a live person answer every call. We have also put in new computer systems this year which by first of next year will be able to tie the entire building together so that CS can see what shipping is doing and has direct access to engineering and production and so on, currently the system relies on people walking across the building or paging somebody else to solve some of these problems, and we finally realized that to have top notch customer service we needed to spend some big money, so we are doing that right now. But of course, that is not an excuse, and certainly none of that makes your situation any better.

If it will make you feel any better, pleae PM me your RA number or full name/address and I can have engineering do an autopsy on your rim, provided that this happened recently and the bad rim has not been destroyed already (all warranty and crash replacement parts are destroyed as we have caught people in our dumpsters trying to salvage product, and even seen dumpster parts show up on ebay). To answer your question about how we know what happened to the rim, there is a plasticizing agent in the epoxy which adds to the toughness, and when the plastic is strained past a certain percentage the molecular structure becomes aligned in the stressed area creating a pattern which is visible under magnification, and with larger energy impacts is visible to the naked eye. This is a similar effect to when you bend a piece of plastic and it turns white at the area of the bend, it looks like that, and hitting things of different shapes results in different patterns around the failure. Based on the shape and pattern of the stress it is usually obvious if there was an impact. There are also dozens of production errors that can cause a rim to crack, and we have a book of photos and descriptions of what is what and how to diagnose. If a rim shows up which doesn’t fit any known criteria, it is sent to engineering to make a determination, and in those cases we usually end up calling the customer to get the story as well as fully disecting the rim and doing various analyses to try and determine if there is any material defect or contamination or other manufacture caused problems, generally in these instances the customer has the wheel covered under warranty as the dissection can take 4-6 weeks as it involves outsourced chemical analysis and so on.

The thing I would tell people about broken carbon rims is that the rim is almost never broken any time near when the crack is discovered. Under magnification I have studied dozens of rim cracks in the brake zone and in every instance found that the carbon around the crack has been sanded down by the brake pads. What has happened is that the rim was cracked in some impact, but appears fine as the damage is just at the rim edge, then as the wheel continues to be ridden for weeks or months the crack grows due to abnormally high stresses caused by the crack (basically the broken fibers cause adjacent fibers to take up their load, every time that zone sees high stress a couple more fibers crack due to the abnormally high stress, putting even higher stress on their adjacent fibers and so on in a snowball effect), during this time the brake pads act as a sand paper on the crack edges everytime the brakes are used the material at the crack edges is ground away. Ultimately the crack is discovered and the riders first thought is that they haven’t hit anything recently, and hence almost every damaged rim we see comes with an attached story of never having hit or impacted anything. I’m sure that our CS guy was not meaning to insinuate that you were lying (and I’m going to talk to all of thim about this to ensure it is handled better in the future) but probably thinking that this was an old impact recently discovered.

Again, I’m very sorry for your negative experience and for the way your problem was handled, we all try extremely hard to do the right thing and do what is right by our customers, dealers and ourselves, so it is very frustrating and upsetting to all of us when we cannot.

Regards

josh

Josh-

 Not trying to hijack, so can you please look at my post re: Zipp 404 Pave rim?  Thanks. 

Wow…well that was impressive. Seriously, kudos to you to take the time out to respond to the guy.

Impressive post. I like to see that a big company like Zipp has such a strong stance towards customer satisfaction. This is the reason I will continue to be a Zipp customer in the future. Hope everything works out for you Hangdogger, please let us know how everything resolves.

I have had very positive experiences with Zipp and will continue to use their products. Hangdogger, I hope that you and Zipp can work this out. Josh is a very reasonable person.

Yes, thank you Josh, I truly appreciate the response and the sincere apology. I sent you a pm regarding the issue and look forward to discussing the problem.

And I agree with the other ST’ers, that companies need to make comments and take stances as you have here. Your reply was logical and considerate, as my dealings with Zipp thus far have not, so thanks for at least showing that someone there cares about the people racing on their products.

I have to agree with others on Zipp. They are great all around. I have never had a bad experience with them.

I have delt with their customer service several times. In one instance I could explain the situation to the guy and he said, hey email me a pic and let me take a look at it. In my experiences they go well beyond other comanies out their.

I don’t think twice about buying from them because I fell confident that their products and customer service is superior to others.

Josh seems like a great reprentative of their company also.

O

great reply. i, too, have had a lot of problems with rim cracks (near valve hole and spoke hole drillings) forming on 3 out 4 (!) zipp 404 rims we’ve owned. and it was a pain to pack and send the wheels back to zipp for the (free) rim replacement and rebuild.

that said, i would like to make clear that the customer service i got from zipp (a few years ago) to help me with these problems was excellent.