I have read many previous posts, and it seems the general consensus is that tubulars are faster, lighter, better, etc…
BUT - I am not at all skilled at any type of bike maintenance. I hate to be the stereotype of many women, but those are the facts. I can change a clincher tire if I have to, but it takes me longer than I like. I have no clue about how to glue, mount, etc. a tubular tire, and would not trust my work even if it were explained to me. Do I buy tubular wheels, have my local bike shop do the work, and then hope that I don’t flat on the race course? Or do I buy clinchers, still hope I don’t flat, but have the possibility of changing a tire? My upcoming race is the Prairieman Half Ironman in September.
While we are on the topic, I am 5’3, 110#, and am thinking about a ZIPP 303 in the front and a 404 in the back (650c). Any thoughts?
Do the clincers, and you will have no problem running 404’s for both front and back. There is not enough cross wind on those bridges to effect handling too drastically.
Having ridden clinchers for years, and just now getting my first tubular, I would say that changing a flat tubular is much less of a hassle than a clincher. Even though I do almost all of my own bike maintenance, and felt confident enough I could do it, I still had a friend glue my tire on for the first time.
Changing flats is a skill everyone should have, especially if you ride any distance outside of town. Flats will happen, not may happen, it’s best to be prepared. Once you start working on your bike, it’s amazing how simple it is and how few tools you really need to keep it rolling.
Tubulars are a major hassle (don’t let anyone convince you otherwise). I rode them all last year and they just weren’t worth the extra work and logistical crap you have to put up with - so I sold the tubies and am happily back in the clincher camp this year.
I race on tubulars and I don’t carry a spare on race day. If I flat then the day is done. A safely glued tubular is a pain in the ass to remove. Last time I flated a tubular it was a 20 minute tire change. Last 404 clincher I changed was even worse (circa 2002). The clincher 404 is a VERY tight fit. Perhaps it has changed in the last few years.
If I was you I would try and mount the clincher in your local shop before I purchased the wheels. I think with this wheel you will be better off on tubulars. Of course that is just my opinion and I could be wrong.
I put on new clincher tires yesterday for the first time. Thats a pain in the ass. Why do they come from the factory almost freakin flat??? Took me about an hour to change out the old ones and put on my new super fast Michelin Pro Racers…hope I did it right.
And whats the deal with short valve stem tubes? How the hell do you get your pump to grip those suckers??? I tried for the longest time and just took them back to the shop and picked up a couple of long stem tubes…I had to go back anyway because I didn’t know that tires only came one to a pack. whassup with that?
If you don’t hear from me tomorrow you’ll know that my tires came off at 40mph on my evening ride and I’m in the hospital.
Well, I love my 404 tubulars. At your weight though, the difference is minimal - if you are uncomfortable and don’t want to learn how to mount a tubular, just get the clincher version. The clincher may be “faster” and easier, but the tubular is so much more comfortable - and comfort = speed over the long haul.
Lastly, Lisa Bentley is about your size and runs a 303 up front and a 404 in the rear as she gets blown around a bit. Not sure of your bike handling skills, but hers can’t be all that bad
Good idea. I’m a cheap bastard and I still patch my tubulars but for race day I think you are right. On an IM course I would carry a razor for a half and under (which is what I race) then I’m just out if I flat. Go hard and if the Gods are smiling on me I won’t flat.
then again I have never had to replace one during a race… Knock on wood.
I have and it was a horrible experience. If the spare tubie isn’t pre-stretched PERFECTLY it’ll take a long time to get it on. Of course, that is after the 5-10 minutes of anaerobic work you’ll put into actually getting a well adhered tubie off the rim. OH YEAH…and then you get to stuff the ruined (expensive) tubie up your jersey so that you don’t litter the course. It’ll look (and feel) like your intestines have exploded out of your torso.
And all this follows the interesting puzzle of how to attach 450-500g of spare tubies to your bike in the first place. Combine this with the fact that good clinchers have equal or better rolling resistance (yes, I realize I have a major bias against RR right now with the 2004 Tufo debacle) and that my training rims use clinchers as well and you couldn’t pay me to run tubies at this point :).
And one other thing…both tires (tubies) flatted once during a race sim ride I did. Felt just TREMENDOUS to flush that $90 right down the drain.
I weigh 150 pounds and have lots of trouble getting stretched tubulars onto wheels. This task is even harder with disks wheels and deep dish rims because one is very conscious of the value of those deep dish rims and disk wheels and tries to avoid denting them. This gives one very little room to grip the wheel to muscle the tire on the wheel. If you have any friends with tubular wheels, ask them to let you try doing this yourself with an old tubular. Then imagine what it’s like with some wet glue on it. I’ve done it for years and after I get rid of my last disk wheel I am never going back. Not worth the hassle. Another issue is if you are training and flat. If you have clincher wheels, it is almost certain someone else will be riding along who will be able to render assistance. Most of the tubular folks are carrying just enough to get themselves home.
Go for the clinchers if that's what you want. Don't let someone talk you into tubulars because they are the real race wheels. I have 404 clinchers. I use Verstein Fortezza's and I can pull them off the rim with no tools and no problems. I'm a 175 lb guy so I might be stronger than you but I think it's all in the approach.
Well, I have both (404 clinchers and tubulars), and too much time on my hands…so in answer to this question. I question some of the answers you’ve received.
1)you’re right to think tubulars are “lighter, faster, etc”, as that’s been the prevailing thought–until power meters and accurate computer modelling have come along. Clinchers are almost always going to be faster, due to their decreased rolling resistance–even on a steep hill. The extra 400gms/wheelset is easiy overcome by the rolling resistance advantage
2)tubular is easier to change than a clincher?? If this is the case, you’re riding an unsafe pair of wheels!! If you can get the tire off without tools and a lot of time, you a)didn’t mount it properly b)have REALLY bad rolling resistance due the the tire moving around. A properly mounted tubular is NOT easy to change. Also, an improperly mounted tubie is WAY more likely to roll off of a carbon rim
3)comfort. This is subjective, but I question what tires/tubes the tubular fans are riding. A good quality clincher (Michelin Pro Race/Vittoria EVO KS/Veloflex anything) and a latex tube, IMO are equal too, if not better–and don’t have any hop.
4)convenience. Yes, tight-fitting clinchers can be a pain. There also let likely to roll off of your rims! Don’t happen often, but it can! Talcum power helps ease this, when installing at home. Talcing a replacement tube and keeping it in a plastic bag helps for the road.
5) The carbon doesn’t brake as well in the rain–no one’s mentioned that one??
6) I agree with the previous comments r.e. 404’s versus 303’s–the 404 should be fine in all except the worst x-winds. Also, the 303’s seem much less comfortable IMO, probably due to the 404’s parabolic rim design affording a little bit of verticle flex.
Second, removing a tubie is not that hard. I was nervous the first time I had to do it, but it is really not a problem; however I have not ever had a flat in a race. If fixing a tubular sketches you out, then get the clinchers.
As for changing a flat, I would suggest racing with the vittoria open corsa evo cx. it is an awesome tubular. right now i am racing with a tubular 404 in front and a mavic open pro with power tap, disc cover in back. therefore that rear wheel is a clincher. i am using that tire for racing only and it is freaking unbelievable how easily it can be installed/removed.
If you are looking for a fast convinient setup, then go with 404 clinchers with vittoria open corsa evo cx. if you flat, then you will be up and running (riding) in 3 minutes flat…not even kidding!
I used to use tubulars and switched to Tufo Tubular Clincher tires on Zipp 404 clincher rims. No pinch flats and easy to change.
I did a half ironman on Sunday which had a little over 200 people in it. At the awards banquet they said they fixed 56 flats on course. The rain caused snall rock chips to stick to the tire and puncture through. Sure glad I had the tubular clinchers which are a lot harder to flat than clinchers.
tubbies vs clinchers? Buy what you are most comfortable with. As for the rims get the deepest front wheel you can afford (808) then toss the 404 on the rear.
Next, buy clinchers. I’m a loyal tubie user, but in your situation I can’t see any reason why you would want to deal with the hassle. IMO, the only benefits a tubie would provide you is high-speed flat security.
With clinchers in mind, I don’t think 303 or 404s are your answer.
I’ll duck for cover, but there are worlds of difference b/w Zipps clincher and tubular rims…which is recently noted as Zipp is offering a clincher/alloy wheelset. Don’t get me wrong…the 303/404 clinchers are REALLY nice wheels, except for wheel the alum surface wants to pull away.
I think you would be just as well served with with either a Mavic Ksyrium Elite 650c or Easton Accent II 650c.
Otherwise…there are plenty of good deals on used 650 Zipps on ebay!
