If you had a time trial to do, which front wheel would you use? The old spinergy 4 bladed rev x, or a zipp 440?
BTW Spinergy Rev-X is 8 spokes, 4 pairs.
I don’t know anything about Spinergy, but if some offered me a Zipp 440 and $500 in exchange for my brand new Zipp 404 front, I’d take the old wheel, money and run.
I went from 650 to 700 c thus requiring a change, but I can’t see how the new wheel could be any faster than the old. If it is faster, it must be measured in seconds.
Chad
I can’t speak to which wheel would be faster, because I simply don’t know. But I can tell you that you’ll look faster with the Zipp wheel.
But sometimes seconds count! I lost a first place by 1.6 seconds this year, and also dropped from 4th to 5th in another race by 1.5 seconds!!!
I have had both wheels (and some Hed3s too) so I feel that I can comment: the 404 without a doubt. The Zipp is still probably slightly more aero, but the hub is so far superior that it alone probably gives you your 2-3 secs that you were looking for.
Good luck and go hard!
Ha! Maybe you should have worn racing flats that weight 2 oz. less. 
Chad
My wheel is an older ‘440’ though, not the ‘404’. What do you think about that one?
Do you have the 440 with the carbon hub? It was a simple thing of beauty and “seemed” to roll ever bit as well as the aluminum hub on my new Zipp. If I had stuck with 650c I would have no qualms about racing that wheel right now along with the rear J-Disc I was using. I certainly wouldn’t spend any money to buy a newer Zipp.
Years ago Zipp and Hed pretty much nailed the basic design of their deep wheels. Everything they have done since is mostly marketing to get people to buy new wheels. Real world improvements are incrementally tiny at best.
Chad
No, I have the newer, aluminum front hub (with the stupid little carbon end cap dust covers). Still an awesome hub that spins forever. In fact, for fun I have 3 bikes with wheels currently mounted (Zipp 404 tubular, Reynolds Alta Race clincher, Ksyrium SSC SL clinchers - all quality wheelsets/tires). I can spin all 3 with the same force and the Zipp will out spin the others (the Reynolds stops quite fast for some reason and it is new) by over 2 minutes!
On the road I “think” I can feel it too - very smooth. Obviously the aero benefit is the main reason to go with it, but it is also the lightest wheel by far (and the most expensive too)
Let me share some experiences. I’ve used the Zipp 440 ever since 1994. It is an awesome wheel. In between I used the Spynergy revX for one season since I had a 650 bike that season. The RevX sucks. It is not aero like the Zipp 440 and it is heavy.
The only downside of the 440 is the carbon hub which has a lot of play. I am thinking of getting mine rebuilt with a standard tried and true Ultegra 32 spoke hub (you can get them for $29.99 at Nashbar). I’ll just lace every second hole for the 16 spokes on the Zipp.
I do agree with Chad’s comments. There is little or no difference between the ancient Zipp 440 and the newer Zipp 404. Let’s put it this way. When they were ued by Mark Allen’s bike in Kona 1993, he biked sub 4:30. So unless you are in the same league as any of these guys below, the 440 will suffice:
1 <u>MARK ALLEN</u> USA 00:50:40 04:29:00 02:48:05 08:07:45 - 2 <u>PAULI KIURU</u> <u></u> 00:51:05 04:28:06 02:55:16 08:14:27 0:06:42 3 <u>WOLFGANG DITTRICH</u> <u></u> 00:48:30 04:30:29 03:01:14 08:20:13 0:12:28 4 <u>KEN GLAH</u> USA 00:50:41 04:33:54 02:59:26 08:24:01 0:16:16 5 <u>JÜRGEN ZÄCK</u> <u></u> 00:51:52 04:27:42 03:06:44 08:26:18 0:18:33 6 <u>PAUL HUDDLE</u> <u></u> 00:53:32 04:39:39 02:54:36 08:27:47 0:20:02 7 <u>BRUCE THOMAS</u> <u></u> 00:50:29 04:38:15 03:00:05 08:28:49 0:21:04 8 <u>HOLGER LORENZ</u> <u></u> 00:51:47 04:35:29 03:05:35 08:32:51 0:25:06 9 <u>JEFF DEVLIN</u> <u></u> 00:53:40 04:44:20 02:55:18 08:33:18 0:25:33 10 <u>OLAF SABATSCHUS</u> <u></u> 00:57:05 04:40:08 02:56:55 08:34:08 0:26:23 11 <u>BEN VAN ZELST</u> <u></u> 00:55:03 04:37:59 03:02:21 08:35:23 0:27:38
I agree as well. The newer hub is actually slightly heavier than the older, carbon hub, but supposedly a little more durable. Their best hubs are way to expensive (the Z series, Z3, Z4 etc.) but are even better still (Z4s go for about 3K and are otherwise the same wheel as a new 404 except for the awesome hub).
I think Mark Allen in his prime could have beat the field with my mountain bike tires on his bike 
Let’s just say that Mark Allen beat Pauli Kiuru in that 1993 race by one mile (time diff of 6:45). Kiuru and Bustos had the same misfortune as Ullrich…being total studs in an era dominated by the best all time in Hawaii (sorry Dave Scott…). In fairness to Mr. Kiuru, Allen needed everything he had in the tank to make sure that he one. Perhaps not a Dave vs Mark thing, but Kiuru was no slouch. Allen would have beaten you and I on MTB tires, but he needed the full arnsenal to hammer Kiuru including his Zipp 440’s
Be warely of the Rev-X…the reports I have read is that they are even less aero than a spoked wheel. That’s in addition to how dangerous they are.
I’ve ridden a pair of Rev-Xs for about 6 years now. They are waaaay more aero than spoked wheels. The only downside to the Rev-Xs in my opinion is that they seemed to be very susceptible to cross-winds. Not sure why you say they are dangerous…
Spot
take a look at this data, it has the Zipp 440 and the Rev-x scroll down to the large table of data.
http://www.bsn.com/cycling/WheelAerodynamics.html
it shows the Rev-x as a bit faster in half the wind angels then the Zipp
Dan…
Hi Hoehler
i’m going to post this again so you see it it’s a good list of data.
http://www.bsn.com/cycling/WheelAerodynamics.html
Dan…
I’ve had the 440’s and currently have 404’s. The major difference I found is that you’ll need about 500 more feet to brake on the 440 than the 404’s. IMHO, Zipp really improved the braking surface going to the 404’s. In a TT is this really important? To quote Cipo…“If you brake you loose.”
Also there’s a slight weight difference. Not really import in TT’s as well.
I’ve ridden a pair of Rev-Xs for about 6 years now. They are waaaay more aero than spoked wheels. The only downside to the Rev-Xs in my opinion is that they seemed to be very susceptible to cross-winds. Not sure why you say they are dangerous…
Spot
I would say it was the serious fall I took going 45 kph when the wheel collapsed that convinced me that the wheels were unsafe. I ended up tumbling into the middle of the lane and the bumper of the car with the screeching wheels behind me was within inches of my head when the car came to a stop. Spinergy admitted that the wheels are prone to collapse due the hardening of the glue used to bind the carbon fiber to the hub. Enough said?
My fastest times were on rev x’s, but the ride quality sucked. They are also scary on descents and in cross winds.