Spinergy or Reynolds.
Waste of money…should of gone with the Zipp 404 Tubies.
Velomax and American Classics make such a wheel. I bought a pair of Velomax Tempest II tubies about two month ago. They are way stiffer than the Zipps with the same 404 rim. The hub is boyond arguing much better on the Velomax and the way they tread the spokes in, they can put much more tension on them making for a stiffer wheel with the same rim.
I have no experience with the American Classics. If you want a all carbon aero wheel that’s stiff and feels sharp in the corners, Reynolds is probably hard to beat but it comes with a price.
Aero and much lighter than the SSC’s - really no comparison.
I somewhat agree with you, that’s partly why I went for the velomax instead of the Zipp’s but on the other hand, aero is what really counts, handling in corners comes second. Unless you race in crits, aero rules, then weight if you do hilly races.
One more thing, even though they might feel softer in the corners, you’re most probably not anywhere close to where they let the road go. It’s in your head. Hamilton and Co. race those wheels around the corner at double the speed we all do and the wheels are fine.
My recommendation: get an aero wheel and practice your cornering
buy an aero wheel that’s stiff e.g. Velomax
If you have the money get a pair of Reynolds, they are stiff and aere
PS: The zipp’s have the comfort going for them…
you can’t compare these two wheel set’s. That is insane. The ZIpps are a much better triathlon/TT wheel. Hands down.
The Ksyrium’s might be better choice if you are a road rider and plan to ride primarily technical road races. But still a set of 303’s would be my choice of wheel over any of the Mavic wheels.
But you need to go with what you like and how it feels.
Please Google “Damon Rinard Wheel Test” and read about what influences wheel stiffness. Many factors are at play, but it is not the tension in the spokes.
weight’s about the same, aerodynamic advantage with 404’s, rotational inertia smaller with 404’s…
how a bike “feels” has little to do with whether it’s going faster, unless of course the effects are psychological, in that the “feel” makes you pedal faster.
Dura Ace hubs laced to Mavic Open Pros with DT Revo spokes will make a stiffer, lighter, and marginally more aerodynamic wheel than Ksyrium, and cost 1/2 - 1/3 as much.
you can try Googling Kraig Willets analysis of wheel weight/aerodynamics tradeoffs on Bike.com… (or, even asking right here on the phorum)
Good one! Didn’t know that and I’m glad I learned this today, thanks.
So let me reformulate what I said:
The Velomax wheels feel much stiffer in fast corners than the 404’s for reasons that are in the spoke-hub combo not in the rim because they are exactly the same. If that makes the Velomax a faster wheel, I doubt it. If I touch the road in a corner, it’s neither because of the zipp nor the Velomax, it’s because I do something stupid. Chances are, that’s the same for most of us.
Another consideration is spoke type and spoke count. Maybe the Zipp Clydesdale 404s would have the added stiffness (handling feel), retain the most of the lightness (tubulars), and still be much more aero than the Ksyriums. Zipp offers the 404s in custom spoke counts on request as well, but the Clydesdales would probably get the job done without the added cost of a custom build.
ksyriums are great wheels. training & road racing & draft legal tri’s. they are stiff and feel v. solid. pleased with mine. but i would have kept the zipps for tt’s and tri’s. (i have some alps for tri & tt’s).
i think you need both sets of wheels (well that’s what I told my wife!!)
Agreed.
The poster would have been served better buy getting a bomb proof set of non-aero training wheels and then getting tubular race wheels. The tubular carbon rim/wheel combo is typically going to be way lighter than the similar wheel in the clincher format.
Part of the problem is they sell many of the mid to high-end bikes now with these wheels that are sort-of training wheels and sort-of race wheels. If I was buying a bike in this range, at the time of purchase, I would see if I could trade out these middle-of-the-road wheels for a more basic( and sometimes less expensive) set for training purposes. Then invest in a really good pair of tubular race wheels.
Just my thoughts.
What I don’t understand is the advantage of saving the 1.3 pounds by going to a set of Zipp 404s over the Mavic Cosmics when you get an inferior hub set and rims that don’t stay straight. Why not just throw off one of the 3 or 4 water bottles strategically position around your bike, or stick a few less energy bars to the top tube. Straight non-aero wheels are faster than out of true aero rims 7 days a week. I prefer the Kysriums over the Zipps.
Agree with you on the trueness issue.
However, I suspect that this has more to do with the quality of the build-up on the wheels themselves than the brand of the rims/wheels. I have a pair of older Zipp 440 tubular wheels that are 10 years old. I seeked out the BEST wheel builder in my area when I obtained the rims and he built the wheels for me. They have never gone out of true! They are very light and to date, bomb proof.
Also, I agree with you on the other issue of water excessive bottles. One of the funniset places to stand is at the exit to T1 in an big IM race. I love watching all the super light and super aero $5,000+ bikes being ridden out of the transition area with 5+ pounds of water strapped to the bike and the rider wearing a parachute for cycling top or positioned on the bike mimicing a parachute!
Fleck, your observations are so true about people doing Ironman with 5 lbs of water.
Hey, I have a 1o year old front Zipp 440 on which I trashed the Zipp balistic hub. Any idea of a wheel builder who can rebuild this wheel with a 16 hole hub. I went to my local LBS with an old totally awesome campy super record 32 hole wide flange hub and asked him to rebuild my wheel with this hub and he refused to saying it is unsafe to build a 16 spoke radial wheel with a 32 spoke hub due to the higher spoke tension per spoke and the reduced amount of metal in the hub. You’d think with the wide flange and the deeper aero section, I’d be OK.
On second thought, do you want to sell your front 440 ?
There is an aid station every 5 - 10 miles, for goodness sake. That means they will have direct access to water and just about anything else they need at least twice an hour! Why the portable bar & picnic strapped to the bikes? It’s a good thing they spent $300 for that ti bottom bracket!
I am hanging onto the 440’s as a totem/token?? and inspiration that I will get back into the game at some point. Don’t know when, but maybe one day.
In truth, I actually dusted the 440’s off and reglued on some tires to do the relay bike leg at Orillia triathlon last year. What an awesome feeling!
Fleck
P.S. Will you be at Muskoka?