requires pro level speed to get benefit from. unless you’re averaging over 25mph i think you’re just lugging around extra weight.
The one thing that you should take away from this is that whatever else you decide to go for, do not opt for a 404 rear (unless you also plan to buy a wheel cover)
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if computational fluid dynamics and mathematical simulations were in fact accurate, we would already have settled on the definitive fastest aero bike.
as far as i know, there are still a variety of designs, ideas and concepts. too many variables affecting airflow over a bike in real world.
You’re right. Screw simulations based on real world data. Your “I think you’re just lugging around extra weight” is definitely more accurate.
if computational fluid dynamics and mathematical simulations were in fact accurate, we would already have settled on the definitive fastest aero bike.
as far as i know, there are still a variety of designs, ideas and concepts. too many variables affecting airflow over a bike in real world.
You’re right. Screw simulations based on real world data. Your “I think you’re just lugging around extra weight” is definitely more accurate.
I’ve been thinking about amputating a lower limb, no need to be lugging that weight around.
How fast do you ride a typical race?
Anywhere from 39-47 km/hr depending on the length of the TT
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so the 404 upfront offers much better handling vs the 808?
The one thing that you should take away from this is that whatever else you decide to go for, do not opt for a 404 rear (unless you also plan to buy a wheel cover)why?
The one thing that you should take away from this is that whatever else you decide to go for, do not opt for a 404 rear (unless you also plan to buy a wheel cover)why?
Because you would be giving up speed to people on rear 808s or discs with no benefit to handling and a negligible difference in weight.
For people who already own a 404 rear but not a deeper model, it makes total sense to use it. It’s not like a Zipp 404 is a bad wheel.
My comment was aimed towards somebody who currently owns neither and is unsure of which to buy.
is there a noticeable improvement in handling of 404 vs 808 in moderate wind/crosswinds? or does it take significant crosswinds to realize an improvement in control of the 404s? thank you.
For me i have found i can ride a 808 up front up to 0-11mph winds, once that winds speed hits 12mph i am switching to a bontrager aeolus 7 and if winds are going up to 20+ switching to a 404. Now there seem to be people on ST that say they ride a 808 through a hurricane no problem!
definite advocate for the 404/ 808 combo.
definitely do not ride a disk in Bolton - and for most other courses. simply too heavy and requires pro level speed to get benefit from. unless you’re averaging over 25mph i think you’re just lugging around extra weight.
404/ 808 gives lots of flexibility + performance.
Nope. In general slower riders will save more time http://www.cervelo.com/en/engineering/thinking-and-processes/slow-vs-fast-riders.html and aero pretty much always trumps weight http://www.cervelo.com/en/engineering/thinking-and-processes/weight-vs-aero.html
Good info, thx
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the asymmetry of a 404 front and an 808 rear is not aesthetically pleasing. I prefer 404 front and rear for training on tri bike or swapping to road bike, then disc cover for the 404 rear for any tris.
Agree regarding the utility of a 404 pair and transferring to road bike, hence my disc cover caveat.
Plus with a disc cover, you may decide that if the weather forecast is predicting very little wind on race day, to skip the disc cover and just use the 404.
i would imagine many believe the 808 is much more “aesthetically pleasing”.
agree that a SET of 808s looks better. But a 404 in front (if you need to hedge for high crosswind) and an 808 in back bothers me. It’s like a fat guy with a skinny girl. Just looks disproportionate. Since it’s slowtwitch dogma that disk in back always (with the exception of just a few races), makes more sense to me if you’re not sure about 808 front handling to have 404s front and rear and then a disc cover. That way you get aesthetics in training and max aero in races.
I thought I was the only one who thought a 404/808 looked odd. I’m glad I’m not alone!
I thought I was the only one who thought a 404/808 looked odd. I’m glad I’m not alone!
Otherwise known as 606. They are a Zipp product. I use them as my crit wheels. Very popular.
However I understand how important looks are to triathletes. I mean guys riding funny bikes wearing funny clothes and funny shoes have to be very conscious of their wheels. It’s the whole package.
I know their popular and often referred to as the 606 set. I think a set of 808s looks awesome. I have an 808/Super 9
For racing and pure performance go with the 808/Super 9 combo. Fastest pure setup. I raced last weekend in St Paul in 20+mph winds going downhill at 40+ mph. It was scary but doable. For reference this is on a P5.
The 808s alone are fantastic and I ride them all the time, and race them occasionally. Definite improvement over the 404s.
The 404s are a great wheel and I use them on my road bike alot. Very stable. In higher crosswinds, the 404 on the front pulls noticeably less than the 808, but that’s more of a personal preference thing. I have almost never been in a situation where I was uncomfortable on the 808s.
For me, the 606 is a great combination for a road bike (mine is an S5). Very comfortable, does well in any wind, but is very aero. I sorta like how they look- kinda like a dragster w/ bigger tires on the rear. I could be weird but whatcha gonna do.
Anyone saying the disc is too heavy hasn’t raced a disc. Sorry, just my opinion. I use the tubular Super 9 which is only marginally heavier than the 808, and when the hill turns down the difference in lugging it up the hill is worth it.
SO>>>>finally, if you’re looking for one set of race only wheels, get the Super9/808. If you want a set to do everything with on a P3, get the 808s.