anyone have any input on 700 ZIPP 404 clinchers? good, bad, other…i’ve heard some pretty bad things about them.
how about Mavic Cosmic Carbone SL clinchers?
Why clinchers? I can’t say I’ve heard much against 404’s (in general) save perhaps the price…
How about Hed Alps clinchers. Just as aero, a little lighter, $400 cheaper.
One of the best things I heard is that you can get a pair for $950 at helens bikes in LA, cant say better than that eh?
Ask them if they have fixed the alu rim warping?
Hmm. I’ll always be a bigger fan of tubulars for race wheels than clinchers. I just think (IMO) that the benefits of tubulars- and utter abscence of drawbacks- make them a better choice.
About Zipp specifically: We sell a lot of Zipp wheels and I can’t ever remember a problem. They are top notch. I race on Zipp and Hed wheels with good results.
When people do voice concerns with Zipp I generally find it is centered around a misunderstanding of the product and its intended use as opposed to any shortcoming on the products part.
Zipp wheels are racing equipment. As such they are optimized for light weight, aerodynamics and durability. Probably in about that order. That said, they do make special “Clydesdale” wheels that are supremely durable.
Some people have wondered about the clicking noise that may come from the wheels when new. Simple. Simply slide the rubber “O” ring behind the carbon fiber dust cap to its outermost orientation on the axle and Voila! Silent.
Like a Formula 1 car, Indy car, drag racer or racing boat you just have to know how to use the equipment correctly.
I can’t see the logic behind an expensive set of carbon rimmed race wheels with clinchers. If you are opting for a set of high performancerace only wheels, it only makes sense to also use tubulars. Also, carbon rimmed clinchers are usually quite a bit more expensive than comparable tubular wheels (witness Reynolds, Campy etc).
No specific experience, thought, with the 404s. I’m sure they’re good … as is most everything made by Zipp. That said, my choice would be Reynolds Stratus (in tubular, of course), mounted with Conti tubies (or, perhaps, Dugasts, if I could find and afford them).
Big advantage of clinchers: I will never quit a race because of flats.
For me “finishing” is most important. So when my spare tyre (or tube) is used with a clincher, I still have 8 park-tool patches to use. With a tubular - once I use up my spare tyre (which is also a lot heavier than a tube alone) I am out of the race. No big deal for a pro - 10 minutes lost he is out of the money anyway and will rather quit than finish to be recovered for the next payday. I will walk to the next aid station, borrow a pump (after I used up all my co2 cartridges) and continue with 20 minutes on the clock.
So whats the disadvantage of a clincher? Not weight, what I loose on the tyre, I gain on the spare tube (and more). So rolling resistance? This makes up a whopping 5% of total resistance. The difference between a good clincher and a good Tubular is … well 0%. But lets believe the traditionalists and make that difference 10%. Then we have 0,5% of total resistance saved. We dont want to calculated that into watts and the watts into mph - do we 
Have both Hed Alps and Cosmic Carbone (the old, not SL) Clinchers.
Cosmic: Bomb-proof, 100% true, never needed to adjust a single spoke, fantastic hub. The “perfect” wheel - except the weight. There is a reason why so many of the road pro’s are using Cosmic, even in a bit hilly races. (I know they are paid by Mavic - but it’s their own choice to use Cosmic instead of Ksyrium).
Alps: Very solid (and the lightest aero clincher?) As for all “real” carbon wheels not 100% true.
Both can be used in all conditions: Descending downhill, rain, turns. No brake problems due the alu rim. Both stiff, fast and gives a nice road feeling.
If the only important thing is weight - go for Alps (or even better, a tubular all-carbon rim).
Weight & descending, turns, rain etc. → go for Alps.
If you want an almost maintenance-free wheel - go for Cosmic. (I don’t think the quality has suffered even if the new one is lighter).