Xterra Triathlon: FS Bikes

Triathlon Forum
1

Re: “non-functioning FS XC race bikes”:

I have raced mtn bikes since 2004. Started Sport and now race Expert.

When I did a lot of JRA (just riding around), I didn’t notice the suspension (although I rode HT from 1999-2002).

However, now I ride only FS, but dialing in a bike seems to take months and my last FS bike would not adhere to the trail, so I sold it! (Racer X… POS RIP!).

Now, I’m riding an old-school M4 FSR (2001 model). My original and first FS bike was also an M4 FSR, which is how I knew what I wanted.

I’m shopping for a race worthy mtn bike, but just can’t pull the trigger on a $5k bike that I’m not sure that I’ll like (case in point Racer X).

I race mtn and Xterra, so all mountain is not of interest (plus, I live in TX).

Does anyone have ZEN advice or instructions for testing compression, rebound, propedal on front and rear suspension?

2

Is there something wrong with the M4? Didn’t Ned win two xterra titles on that bike?

3

M4 is fine. However, since I bought this one used (and was unaware of performance issues), the BB is whack, the rear hub has issues, and the chain gets sucked when changing rings.

Hence, need a new race bike.

4

I’m really not trying to be a pain in the ass, but do you like the way the m4 rides? Couldn’t you just invest in better cranks, BB, chainrings and wheels and be on your way? I know some of the older fishers had REALLY bad chain suck problems but it was solved with different chainrings. Now, those old bikes are hard to beat for ride quality.

I’ve been looking at getting an older Specialized like that, so I’m a little curious why you dont like the frame.

In my experience, once you find a MTB position and setup that works for you, you’ll be hard pressed to do better, even with the new frames and what not. The old tomac frames are a good example. great riding bikes that are hard to beat if they’re set up properly.

5

Yeah, sorry I’m a little defensive… it can be easy to get banged around in this forum.

Anyway, I really like the M4 frame/suspension/geometry.

I ride a Medium… kinda wish I had found a small, but for $800 couldn’t pass it up. I put new XTR shifters/brake levers on the bike and it runs very well. Just small issues. Nothing that will stop me from riding the bike for years to come.

The chief reason I went old school was the rim breaks. Every week I found myself adjusting the rotors/calipers with disc. My disc brakes were Hays SLs, so I couldn’t rationalize that performance issues were related to quality. Operator error, perhaps?

I’m looking at weighing down the bike to make it my trainer ride, but in this part of TX, tubeless is a MUST, so not real sure how to add weight except carry Camelbak when I don’t really drink from it.

I could go on for days, but better stop here.

6

I know I’m going to be beating a dead horse, but I started racing in TX and raced TMBRA for 2 years. I race a HT. My good friend who posts on here as ‘themissing’ races an HT. He just placed 3rd OA in the 6HR race at the Dirty Dozen & Super Six. That’s his 3rd 6 hr on the HT in TX. If you do go FS for racing, an Epic or Scalpel are the only two bikes that I’d bother to look at.

As far as setup … I just read my manuals and follow the directions. Never fails me. You might try e-mailing a company like PUSH for particular setup advice … or better yet, get them to rebuild your shocks. I never noticed a difference when it is +/- a few psi. Particularly if you buy a pre-built bike like a Scalpel or especially the Epic. I think you’ll just be deluding yourself to try improving upon the recomended shock settings.

Which Xterra’s? I’ll be down with my friend at Ruston for the 5th year.

7

I had one of those FSR’s I liked it a lot, but suspension technology has advanced significantly since it
was made. I ride a 2008 Stumpjumper now and (while it is too heavy to be a great race bike) the suspension
performance is a whole 'nohter world. Since 2005 people have figured out how to build a platform which
eliminates all/most of the unwanted travel.

I have an old hardtail that I also take to X-terra races, if the course is not too technical, I tend to race on that
for lightweight and the tighter geometry. You could find a race quality HT for under $500 if you don’t mind
a few scratches. Otherwise I suffer uphill on my Stumpy and crush on the downhills with 5" of travel :wink:

You could also look for a used racer, like a Spesh Epic, Trek Top Fuel or a Santa Cruz SuperLight. They are all
set up for XC racing with tight steering and a rear end that won’t waste as much energy as your old FSR.

If you are racing expert - you already have a pretty good motor. A real race bike would move you up the pack for sure.

Good luck!

8

I may try the Gator… that’s a good race. Did it in 2005, but now I’m in Lubbock, so it’s a LONG haul.

Gonna make Canyon Lakes and Ardmore, OK (and maybe Austin).

Thanks for the input. I’ve been looking at a Scalpel and Spark.
Spark likes to use lockouts. I don’t care for locking out. It could be useful on pavement sections, but I don’t see enough pavement when racing mtn to have an interest in lock-outs.

9

If its gonna be a Full Suspension then the Epic is where its at, Ned Overand. Saucer and Stoltz have kicked all sorts of ass on that frame.

If you are in Texas and do most of your racing here, I would highly recommend the Epic for the Texas races. I raced one for a year before swapping

over to a Carbon S works hard tail, then onto Litespeed Ocoee hardtail.

If Ruston is too far check out Xterra Austin, if you are riding expert class you will appreciate what Xterra Austin offers, Mike Carter and the gang

have developed the most challenging Xterra course I have ever had the pleasure to ride on.

I am sure I will see you at one of them, I am doing all the Texas races (except dirty) and Red River OK as well as the cup race with Beldruger(above poster) in MI

see you at the races, best of luck with your decision.

Joey G

10

You’re right about the advancement of sux technology.

My Racer X was smooth and road like a HT and the rear sux was noticeable when needed.

The M4 is a little mushy compared to the Racer X. However, the Racer X felt like it was about to wash out every time that I dove into a turn/corner.

It seemed like a front end issue and I tried EVERYTHING… stems, bars, R, L, C… to no avail. Just dumped the entire bike and now I’m looking to start over.

11

Hey man.
We need to connect for a ride… I used to do Bikram Yoga… no such thing in Lubbock.

Are you sponsored?

I have a cycling partner who is moving to Europe on sponsorship.

Me? No sponsors. Just a day job (AKA: ball and chain).

“It’s hard to race with Lumberg in your back pocket” LOL!

12

this is interesting…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spHgV1fH1xY

13

I have raced mountain bikes since 1990, and started on a HT like everyone else. In 2001 I bought my first FS and noticed that my results were getting worse.
The problem with FS bikes is the weight. My HT’s were always 3-5 lbs lighter, and thus were much faster.
Over the last few year rear shock technology has taken some of the need for better “bike suspension tech” right out of the equation…and the weights have come down!

I’ve ridden them all; FSR, EPIC, SCALPEL, etc…and have just recently purchased a SCOTT SPARK RC. It has remote lock-outs for front and rear shocks (HT feel!)
But the really big thing is the weight of the bike. NOTHING out today will even come close. Do some research for yourself, but my size L SPARK weighs 20.9 lbs out of the box…4 1/2 " travel…Finally a bike that is a fast as a HT and is just as light. With the travel I can do Cross Country Races, Xterra, Marathon (50 milers), etc…

My last Scalpel was 23.8 lbs…and I paid $5000. My Epic was 23.4 lbs…$6000…you don’t want to know what the Spark cost me.

14

Well given that the only Spark that comes near that weight is the full on $11k model, the scalpel or epic still get my vote at any price point in the <$7k bracket. Otherwise buy a Scalpel frame and I have no doubt you can match the Spark weight for the same or less money. I’m just a big believer in Specialized and Cannondale tech.

15

That is just not true. I swapped tires and tubes, but otherwise the stock SPARK RC ($7000) is under 21 lbs. Do some research and you will find out the Spark frame and rear shock weight under 4 lbs…a full pound lighter than than Scalpel or Epic…and more travel.

16

regarding:

“” Re: “non-functioning FS XC race bikes”:

I have raced mtn bikes since 2004. Started Sport and now race Expert.

When I did a lot of JRA (just riding around), I didn’t notice the suspension (although I rode HT from 1999-2002).

However, now I ride only FS, but dialing in a bike seems to take months and my last FS bike would not adhere to the trail, so I sold it! (Racer X… POS RIP!).

Now, I’m riding an old-school M4 FSR (2001 model). My original and first FS bike was also an M4 FSR, which is how I knew what I wanted.

I’m shopping for a race worthy mtn bike, but just can’t pull the trigger on a $5k bike that I’m not sure that I’ll like (case in point Racer X).

I race mtn and Xterra, so all mountain is not of interest (plus, I live in TX).

Does anyone have ZEN advice or instructions for testing compression, rebound, propedal on front and rear suspension? “”

this is the unspoken problem with these discussions. modern multi-pivot FS bikes require proper care, and set up. the multi-links that make them as cool as they indeed are wear, and wear pretty fast. the multi-link pathways that make them work are highly - entirely - dependant on exacting set up. they are not 200 pound motorcycles, so they are sensitive to very minute problems in these areas. blow this stuff off, and your ultra cool DW-link or VPP or whatever wonderbike is not helping you, if anything it’s hurting you and if you are lucky all it doing is weighing you down some. don’t believe that ?? watch a pro FS bike, as it is handled sometime . . . it receives loving care after close to every ride. are you going to do that ?? can you ?? do you wish to ?? if so, cool. these bikes are incredible things, to be sure. but they are not the same as a honda ruckus scooter, that you hop on and go with.

not to mention, the shocks blow up with sometimes alarming frequency.

i am not anti-FS, by any means. but these bikes are not being sold with the right information.

17

Scott is making some of the lightest carbon bikes on the market… I ride a Scott Addict and with race wheels it’s 14 lbs!

I’ve considered buying a Scott Spark (10 or LTD), but my wife will shoot me for paying that much money!

I agree that the bikes are not sold with proper instructions/information. It’s not beyond comprehension, but the information is not easily imparted from manufacturer to LBS, nor LBS to avg consumer.

The chief issue that I experience with shops is that they ALWAYS want to put me on a bike that’s too BIG.

Hell, I’m 5’9’’ and 155 lbs. I even had one shop sell me an XL size mtn bike!!! That was my first FS bike and I was so proud that I found a $3500 bike at $2500 (in 2002) that I didn’t question their judgment on size/fit… just jam the seatpost into the BB, move the saddle all the way forward, and put on a 20mm stem and off ya go!

18

TmonT is making a very good point here. I’ve been racing mtn bikes for appox. 10 years now, and I’ve seen pretty much every new thing of significance along the way.

FS bikes are awesome when you have an efficient system, tuned correctly, and maintained correctly. As TmonT pointed out, that takes quite a bit of time. If you love the up keep aspect of mtn biking, then FS will be better for in most situations.

Most of us are pressed for time or don’t want to be dick’in around with our bikes. This is why when I head out the door now, 9/10 I’m grabbing my steel single speed HT. It’s just easier to deal with and a lot fun to ride. I’m not suggesting that is the bike people should race in an xterra, but there is a good argument for a HT though.

To me the best things over the years have been: real tubeless UST tires (when the lighter ones started coming out), disk brakes and light strong components. If you can make some really good component choices, you can easily have an 18 to 19 pound HT.