My 15 year old son who is a Jr. elite racer here in Canada racing ITU short course draft legal has expressed interest in racing Xterra with the hope of getting a spot for Maui (U18 spot). He only weights about 110 lbs and is 5’6". Just looking into building him up a lightweight mountain bike (as he’s so light) but know very little about the best approach. Should we consider a hard tail or does Xterra absolutely demand a soft tail bike for traction etc? What about 29er vs 27? Thoughts? Thanks!
When I researched it, 29er hard tail seemed to be the most popular choice since the courses are typically pretty easy as far as mountain biking goes from what I understood. Going to have to give it a try someday soon.
How well does he ride off-road? Can he pick good lines and stand just above the saddle well on rocky/rooty sections? If so, a hard tail will work well. If not, get him a short travel rear suspension frame. You definitely don’t want anything too soft, though. That’s all lost energy.
Are the Xterra courses that technical that they will benefit from a soft tail bike? Hard tails are more efficient at transferring power to the rear wheel which equals higher sustained speeds over the length of the course.
I agree with Vertseven. While most xterra courses in the USA (I know nada about Canadian races) are just fine on the HT, having the FS does help with smoothing out the bumps and saves the legs for the run (since on a HT, your legs are the suspension and do the work in addition to pedaling.) with that being said the lighter FS bikes are significantly more money. If it’s just dabbling and he’s not sure about really racing and training on the mtb cost does have to be considered.
And while others will have a different opinion, IMO the best wheel size it what comes on the bike that fits him the best. I’ve ridden 26fs, 29ht and 29fs and have had nearly identical lap times at 24 hour races on all of them. There is a difference in handling with the smaller wheels for sure, but all my bikes fit me so I was able to flip flop well.
Only when the rear wheel stays on the ground! Some of the very bumpy courses - footy and rocky and such, can throw that rear wheel around a lot on the HT, so it’s actually less efficient because the power isn’t transferred. A lot of that can be mitigated by rider skill, however. If HTs were truly faster, you’d see a lot more of them under the elite mountain bikers…
I think a lot depends on the course. Our race is pretty smooth and has a significant amount of climbing, so I usually recommend a hard tail. That said a lot of people race it on full suspension rigs and do just fine. The weight/performance penalty of a soft tail is a lot less these days. I’d suggest trying both (rent from local shop?) before you decide.
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I’m with Tracy on this. A light weight full suspension XC racer will beat a hardtail every time. The key words are ‘‘light weight’’. I have two Niners, an EMD9 hardtail and a JET9 fully. The Jet weighs 25lb and the EMD 22.5. (most off the rack full suspension 29ers come in about 29 or 30 lbs and weight is crucial in mountain bike racing) They are set up almost identically and the JET eats the EMD’s lunch every time.
I raced full suspension 26er for years, and recently switched to a 29er hard tail, and will never go back. While the rear suspension will dampen some bumps, there are also a lot of weaknesses that are inherent to having a rear suspension.
A rear suspension bike will never be as stiff in the rear end, and at worst it will be noodly, and actually make it difficult to controlA rear suspension (no matter how good) will never climb as good as a hard tail because of pedal induced bob. I have owned a couple Specialized Epics and a Giant Anthem…both of which bobbed a fair amount despite their efforts to remove itA full-suspension requires a great deal more maintenanceA full-suspension will be heavierA full-suspension is harder to set up initiallyA full-suspension bike will stunt his development into a very good mountain biker if that’s where he starts. Whether you are on FS or HT, knowing how to choose the best lines will make you faster, but the compliance in a FS won’t give you the feedback required to develop that skill
The bump-taming characteristics of the larger wheel diameters is slightly understated as well. Even a 27.5 with some high-volume tubeless tires is better than any of my old FS 26" bikes.
Since you son is fairly short, it may be difficult to get him on a 29er (though not impossible). You’d likely have a much easier task fitting him to a 27.5.
Giant XTC 27.5Pivot Les 27.5Yeti ARC 27.5Foundry Tomahawk 27.5Scott Scale 700 series (won the cross country world bup last year)
If you are building it up yourself, take a look at the following components:
Wheelset - Stans Crest 650 B - It’s really hard to get into this weight class for twice the money, and it’s a reliable wheel…particularly for his weightFork - Rockshox RebaRL 650b - Again, this fork is the best balance between value, weight, durability, and performance. Stupid simple to set up too, and bike shops love them (because they are easy to service)Brakes - Shimano XT - Ask almost anyone, these are the best around right nowDrive Train - That’s a bit of a can of worms still. I’m riding XX1, but most reviews say that X01 is a much better value (I won my xx1 at a race so didn’t have to worry about the $1500 price tag), but have ridden XT, XTR, and the lower SRAM X.9 and X.0 stuff. the 1X11 drive trains are really lovely. I climb a ton, and never run out of gears climbing (32t ring), and only run out of gears going down hill when I am tucked and not pedaling anyways. That being said, if your son is just getting into this, and if you’ll build something light (and how light your son is), you could get by much cheaper going with a 1X10 chaining with a Wolf Tooth 42t Cog and some sort of drop-stop chain ring (and any clutch rear derailleur). I happen to have an entire GXP based drive-train that is not the best, but not too bad either (SRAM X.7 FD and shifters with a X.9 rear derailleur - Never been ridden). I’d be happy to sell you that group-set below market if you are interested (PM me).
I’m with Tracy on this. A light weight full suspension XC racer will beat a hardtail every time. The key words are ‘‘light weight’’. I have two Niners, an EMD9 hardtail and a JET9 fully. The Jet weighs 25lb and the EMD 22.5. (most off the rack full suspension 29ers come in about 29 or 30 lbs and weight is crucial in mountain bike racing) They are set up almost identically and the JET eats the EMD’s lunch every time.
My FELT HT 29er wights under 21 lbs, and it didn’t really break the bank either. Getting a full suspension under 25 is a challenge. Also, my HT 29er Kills my old FS 26ers up and down the hills.
I raced full suspension 26er for years, and recently switched to a 29er hard tail, and will never go back. While the rear suspension will dampen some bumps, there are also a lot of weaknesses that are inherent to having a rear suspension.
A rear suspension bike will never be as stiff in the rear end, and at worst it will be noodly, and actually make it difficult to controlA rear suspension (no matter how good) will never climb as good as a hard tail because of pedal induced bob. I have owned a couple Specialized Epics and a Giant Anthem…both of which bobbed a fair amount despite their efforts to remove itA full-suspension requires a great deal more maintenanceA full-suspension will be heavierA full-suspension is harder to set up initiallyA full-suspension bike will stunt his development into a very good mountain biker if that’s where he starts. Whether you are on FS or HT, knowing how to choose the best lines will make you faster, but the compliance in a FS won’t give you the feedback required to develop that skill
The bump-taming characteristics of the larger wheel diameters is slightly understated as well. Even a 27.5 with some high-volume tubeless tires is better than any of my old FS 26" bikes.
Since you son is fairly short, it may be difficult to get him on a 29er (though not impossible). You’d likely have a much easier task fitting him to a 27.5.
Giant XTC 27.5Pivot Les 27.5Yeti ARC 27.5Foundry Tomahawk 27.5Scott Scale 700 series (won the cross country world bup last year)
If you are building it up yourself, take a look at the following components:
Wheelset - Stans Crest 650 B - It’s really hard to get into this weight class for twice the money, and it’s a reliable wheel…particularly for his weightFork - Rockshox RebaRL 650b - Again, this fork is the best balance between value, weight, durability, and performance. Stupid simple to set up too, and bike shops love them (because they are easy to service)Brakes - Shimano XT - Ask almost anyone, these are the best around right nowDrive Train - That’s a bit of a can of worms still. I’m riding XX1, but most reviews say that X01 is a much better value (I won my xx1 at a race so didn’t have to worry about the $1500 price tag), but have ridden XT, XTR, and the lower SRAM X.9 and X.0 stuff. the 1X11 drive trains are really lovely. I climb a ton, and never run out of gears climbing (32t ring), and only run out of gears going down hill when I am tucked and not pedaling anyways. That being said, if your son is just getting into this, and if you’ll build something light (and how light your son is), you could get by much cheaper going with a 1X10 chaining with a Wolf Tooth 42t Cog and some sort of drop-stop chain ring (and any clutch rear derailleur). I happen to have an entire GXP based drive-train that is not the best, but not too bad either (SRAM X.7 FD and shifters with a X.9 rear derailleur - Never been ridden). I’d be happy to sell you that group-set below market if you are interested (PM me).
This. Excellent post.
All good points - I learned on a FS 26 and had to relearn how to ride a bike when I got my HT29. But I had more fun as a novice rider because I wasn’t getting bucked around as much. There is more to worry about with the FS - and having ridden a bike when the rear shock failed, it’s wasn’t fun. I do think the Brain on the Epic does an awesome job of stiffening up the rear suspension - so much that I couldn’t engage it on some of the smaller bumps without significant adjustment. The new CTD shocks are actually really good - I can stand up with my camber in climb mode and there is no bob. As efficient as my fate? No - but it’s horses for courses.
And I wouldn’t rule out the 29er - I’m 5’4" and I have three 29ers. We didn’t have to do anything other then a short stem for fit. It’s all about geometry as you know. I haven’t ridden a 27.5 - if my husband wasn’t on 29 and we didn’t need to have compatible equipment for 24 hour races, I would have tried it.
I raced full suspension 26er for years, and recently switched to a 29er hard tail, and will never go back. While the rear suspension will dampen some bumps, there are also a lot of weaknesses that are inherent to having a rear suspension.
A rear suspension bike will never be as stiff in the rear end, and at worst it will be noodly, and actually make it difficult to controlA rear suspension (no matter how good) will never climb as good as a hard tail because of pedal induced bob. I have owned a couple Specialized Epics and a Giant Anthem…both of which bobbed a fair amount despite their efforts to remove itA full-suspension requires a great deal more maintenanceA full-suspension will be heavierA full-suspension is harder to set up initiallyA full-suspension bike will stunt his development into a very good mountain biker if that’s where he starts. Whether you are on FS or HT, knowing how to choose the best lines will make you faster, but the compliance in a FS won’t give you the feedback required to develop that skill
The bump-taming characteristics of the larger wheel diameters is slightly understated as well. Even a 27.5 with some high-volume tubeless tires is better than any of my old FS 26" bikes.
Since you son is fairly short, it may be difficult to get him on a 29er (though not impossible). You’d likely have a much easier task fitting him to a 27.5.
Giant XTC 27.5Pivot Les 27.5Yeti ARC 27.5Foundry Tomahawk 27.5Scott Scale 700 series (won the cross country world bup last year)
If you are building it up yourself, take a look at the following components:
Wheelset - Stans Crest 650 B - It’s really hard to get into this weight class for twice the money, and it’s a reliable wheel…particularly for his weightFork - Rockshox RebaRL 650b - Again, this fork is the best balance between value, weight, durability, and performance. Stupid simple to set up too, and bike shops love them (because they are easy to service)Brakes - Shimano XT - Ask almost anyone, these are the best around right nowDrive Train - That’s a bit of a can of worms still. I’m riding XX1, but most reviews say that X01 is a much better value (I won my xx1 at a race so didn’t have to worry about the $1500 price tag), but have ridden XT, XTR, and the lower SRAM X.9 and X.0 stuff. the 1X11 drive trains are really lovely. I climb a ton, and never run out of gears climbing (32t ring), and only run out of gears going down hill when I am tucked and not pedaling anyways. That being said, if your son is just getting into this, and if you’ll build something light (and how light your son is), you could get by much cheaper going with a 1X10 chaining with a Wolf Tooth 42t Cog and some sort of drop-stop chain ring (and any clutch rear derailleur). I happen to have an entire GXP based drive-train that is not the best, but not too bad either (SRAM X.7 FD and shifters with a X.9 rear derailleur - Never been ridden). I’d be happy to sell you that group-set below market if you are interested (PM me).
This. Excellent post.
I also forgot to include the fact that the chain stays (a key component of mountain bike handeling) for full-suspensions will also be longer (not a good thing)
I have ridden a few 27.5s (XTC, Foundry and the Pivot Les), and I could definitely see what all the fuss was about. They are about 2/3s of the benefits of a 29er with more responsive handling and less weight. While my felt 29er is sub 21 lb, I think with a similar investment I could have gotten at 27.5 bike close to sub-20. There are certain characteristics that lead you one way or the other though. I’m actually a pretty good technical rider on twisty stuff with roots and rocks. My weakness over the years has been on more non-technical long straight fast chattery-stuff (think a sheepish gravel road with washboard), and the 29ers give you just a little more stability. Because I’m a fairly competent technical rider, I was able to get buy the “sluggish” handling of a 29er (though my FELT is quite a bit more agile then other 29ers I have tried).
Good notes on the fit. It used to be worse than it is now, but at 5’10" I still have a -17 degree stem slammed on the head tube (and the FELT Nine has a pretty short head tube too). I don’t know if that’s because I ride a bit more aggressive than some, but if I were 5’6" and tried to get that low, I think I’d run into fit problems.
All of my bikes are smalls - and the Stumpy looks like a tonka truck. I’m also more torso then leg, so I’m never going to be aggressive with saddle height to handlebar height on any bike! I need to be able reach the pedals! I have 60mm stems on all of them, with about -5, and no spacers at all. I can remember saying I’d never go 29er because of my height, but after getting on one that fit… Although I just sold the last 26er a few weeks ago.
I really think there is no one “perfect” bike for mountain biking. It’s all gonna depend on riding style, goals and terrain. I did the RMES in 2012 - raced on the Fate for all but the Breck 100. Went to the Era (26fs) for that race because for me, any time I lost on the road sections I could make up on the descents - and have more fun while doing it. One of the 24 hour races I did last year I had the Fate and my Stumpy and was turning the same lap times on the trail bike because I could just launch off things and didn’t have to think about the lines as much - even though the Stumpy is near 30lbs. Wouldn’t want to do any other 24 hour race on that bike - way overkill. (25 hours frog hollow - awesome fun race .)
So I like my FS and honestly would have just that if I only had one Mtb, so that’s what I tend to recommend. For me, it’s more fun and allows more freedom for some big days - there are some races I would not want to try on a HT… But I’m lucky and have a fleet, so I can pick the bike for the day. And hopefully will be adding a fatbike to that fleet!
For a 24-hour race, I may consider a full suspension too, but for a 13-20 Mile XTERRA race (where the courses don’t exactly have a reputation for being technical), I wouldn’t think twice, and it’d be a hard-tail every time (even for more technical stuff like Curt Gowdy).
I rode my Fate at Curt Gowdy the first year and had no issues 
That was a super fun course and very much atypical XTERRA. There were a lot of shell shocked people on the run from that course. Would love to get back up there and just ride.
Great rust-buster in that area pretty soon:
http://gowdygrinder.com/index.php
I think they have at least an 8-hour race on portions of that course too.
What happened to true mtn biking in XTERRA? Why has the bike portion become too easy for mtn bikers??? Courses like Keystone, Crested Butte, Moab Steelbender…
Putting him on a HT to learn correct bike handling, at his age really doesn’t need a FS :), and as most everyone has commented… the courses really don’t warrant FS anymore.
Old dude on Intense Carbine SL 26" - 22 lbs
Horses for courses. The XTERRA Stoaked race I put on has lots of short steep climbs and by my standards is not that technical (others have a different opinion). I have posted the following comment on a lot of “which mtn bike threads” over the years: If you are going to have only one mtn bike get a full suspension. I have never heard anyone who rode a FS bike say “I wish I had a hardtail for that course”, but I have heard from the HT riders “Boy, I wish I had a FS for that course”. This is based on someone who is going to mtn bike a lot and only have one bike. If your son is only going to dabble the HT will probably be the better choice for many reasons. Lighter, less expensinve (or more bike for the same money), will teach him proper technical skills. Jersey Devil has lots of rocks where I think FS is a benefit, FS gives you better traction (even on climbs), FS saves your lower back and legs for the run. At your son’s weight though a 4lbs difference in bike weight is a good % of rider+bike weight. And as far as wheel size I say 29er. I am 5’4" and rider a small Niner Jet9.