My husband and I would like to purchase our first set of race wheels but are completly uneducated on the subject. We are doing our first IM in Florida in 2007 (obviously very flat) but we train at home on flats and moderate hills. I suck in the wind! The Xentis look really cool but I don’t know the pros and cons. All this said, we can’t decide what manufacturer and if we should consider discs. Any advice for the novice consumer?
First, don’t buy wheels because they look cool. Next, do a search on slowtwitch as the pros and cons of different wheels has been heavily discussed. Once you get a little knowledge, you and your husband should sit down and figure out how much you can spend. Then you can decide between the wheels in your price range. There are many good brands of aero wheels out there across a wide range of pricing options. Yes, you should consider disks and the Renn is a great bargin. You could each get one for the price of other single wheels. Decide if you want a deep rim or tri/quad spoke for the front or both front and rear.
Ric
I feel your pain. This link is alittle old, but still relevent. It is agood place to start:
http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/product2007/wheels/wheelview.html
Safe bet is anything from Zipp and Hed. They are the two best aero wheel makers out there and always have been. There are other good wheels as well, but these two are the clear leaders. Good luck.
what type of zipp and xentis are you looking at? 404’s out perfomred every brand of threee and four spoke wheels in 85% of real world conditions, to paraphrase zipp’s catalog description of the 404.
Even the Zipp 202s might be more aerodynamic than the Xentis.
I have seen test results for 3 tests where Xentis were tested:
- German test on track, real condition (with rider), seemed to be a very correct scientific test. Xentis was the winner! Tested even better than Zipp 909.(But there were no wind at the track). I think this test is available from Xentis’ web-pages.
- German wind tunnel - Xentis were among the worst, due the behavior in wind “Unlike all other wheels, the drag increased with increased wind angle”
- French wind tunnel, result as the German wind tunnel test.
It seems like Xentis is the best wheel without wind, worst in real life with wind. I have spoken to several people riding Xentis, they are satisfied with the wheel, fine to handle in wind.
Seems to me that independent tests are the best way to gauge these things. I think what you said (although I am not sure) is that the only test where this wheel tested well is available only the Xentis website? Seems a little odd to me.
FWIW- I like lots of tests that tend to show more or less the same thing over time. In the end it is always the Hed 3 and the Zipp 404 that are the gold standards- and of course any disc wheel or wheel cover.
I think it was recently stated on another thread that the Hed 3 is the most tested wheel of all time and remains the one wheel that all other are compared to.
Given the cost of the Xentis I have a hard time understanding why anyone would buy this wheel when flat out better and cheaper alternatives exist. Just seems too much a gamble for me for something that may not be any more aero than a standard training wheel.
Back to the oginal question- which hasn’t really been answered. There really is no comparison the Xentis and Zipp. Zipp is the easy winner and the safe pick in this match up.
I asked this exact same question last year around this time. After a year of searching the only thing i’ve learned is your options should be Zipp, Hed, and maybe Blackwell if the person rides tubulars.
There is a current thread called something like (Zipp twice as good as Hed for twice the price) it’s only a few pages back. That one has a ton of info.
The Xentis wheels tested pretty bad in real wind conditions… not to sure how the new Xentis Mark TT will test, but they are still months from release.
For florida i’d say a set of Hed3s wou;d be the best… my 2 cents.
Look into Blackwell. I feel best bang for your buck.
Seems to me that independent tests are the best way to gauge these things. I think what you said (although I am not sure) is that the only test where this wheel tested well is available only the Xentis website? Seems a little odd to me.
FWIW- I like lots of tests that tend to show more or less the same thing over time. In the end it is always the Hed 3 and the Zipp 404 that are the gold standards- and of course any disc wheel or wheel cover.
I think it was recently stated on another thread that the Hed 3 is the most tested wheel of all time and remains the one wheel that all other are compared to.
Given the cost of the Xentis I have a hard time understanding why anyone would buy this wheel when flat out better and cheaper alternatives exist. Just seems too much a gamble for me for something that may not be any more aero than a standard training wheel.
Back to the oginal question- which hasn’t really been answered. There really is no comparison the Xentis and Zipp. Zipp is the easy winner and the safe pick in this match up.
All 3 tests seemed to be totally independent. I just mentioned the manifacturers Web-sites since it’s easy to find the tests there. (Both Zipp and Xentis have only refereced the test that showed best result for own wheels.)
Those wheels that show the lowest drag on a wind tunnel are not necessary the best ones to handle in side-wind. The theoretical profit of watts may go down to drain while trying to steer the twisting front wheel. (We all use a disk @ rear, don’t we? ; -) )
The testers for T-Mobile (ex. Telekom) used this method for real life side-wind situations:
Two riders of approx. same size & power rode along a windy road back and forth several times, keeping a distance of around 100m between them. Changing components and comparing SRM results. After many days of testing with different wheels, they decided to use Xentis, although it scored badly in some wind tunnel tests.
There are plenty of comments in different forums (England, Germany, USA, even Finland!) of the steering difficulties f. ex. Zipp 808 and HED 3-spoke in very windy conditions. I suggest You to read those first, before investing to a >1000 USD wheelset.
The consensus seems to be that wheels with medium high rim (40 - 50 mm) and 12 - 18 spokes (according to rider’s weight) seems the best pick for windy conditions.
I’m not using or planning to buy a Xentis wheelset, too expensive for me, even here in Europe.
2005 Kona winner Faris Al-Sultan used Xentis wheels, and it is WINDY there!
You’re going to get a ton of opinions here…
The Xentis seem to be more than fast enough for a few superstars like Faris and Ulrich, so I doubt you’ll have to worry about them living up to your needs. Wind tunnel data seems pretty up in the air for these wheels but the aluminum braking surface makes them a nice choice as they’ll be a lot more novice friendly in the braking dept versus a carbon braking tracked wheel (most others). I know people say don’t buy a wheel based on it’s looks, but hey if you think they look cool I’d say buy these. I don’t see any real reason not too.
Other great options (and it’s really hard to go bad on an aero wheel choice) are the Zipp 404’s or 606’s which are proven winners but pricey. I can’t imagine you can go wrong with a pair of the 404’s or 606’s and NO ONE can tell you you got the wrong wheelset. A Zipp 303 front and 404 rear might be a great set for you if you are super sketchy in the wind. Tubular if you want superlight, clincher if you want a bit easier usage and more consistant braking (clincher has a more consistant aluminum braking surface, tubular has a slightly more advanced handling carbon). Maybe even a 999 (rear disk, front 606) setup for your husband if he’s a confident bike handler although I’d skip the deep front wheel for yourself with the wind issue.
HED’s all carbon stingers, maybe a set of Stinger 6.0s or a Stinger 6.0 front and 9.0 rear would be a hot ticket too and be the HED alternative to the Zipp 404 and 606 wheelset respectively. A touch heavier, and not quite as super duper high end but functionally very very similar. HED makes very nice wheels, can’t go wrong here either.
And then the Reynolds, Xtreme, lots of choices out there. Honestly, pick a wheel that you can:
a)afford
b)won’t throw you around in the wind
c)meets your desires in the clincher versus tubular world
d)is race proven
Also pick a wheel based on your experience to this point. The Zipp 999 setup or a similar HED Stinger 90 (very deep wheel) and rear disk are probably the fastest bar none wheelsets out there (remember I said probably) but also require a bit more rider skill to pull them off and enjoy them. A wheelset like the Zipp 404s, HED Stinger 6.0, or the Xentis will provide 99% of the performance but will work for a wider range of riders and skill levels.
Lots of choices but few that you’ll regret. Again, if you think the Xentis is a drop dead sexy wheel that’ll make you go faster, hot damn it probably will. It’s got the pedigree and the race results, possible it’s not the end all very fastest wheel out there but it is a damn good aero wheel choice.
Hey if you want, give me a call and I’ll pick a wheel for you based on your needs. Lol, I’m no certified expert but can probably give you as good advice as any and I’m sure you’ll end up happy in the end. 808 286 8622, you can even tip me if you want:) Can’t believe I just wrote that, but these wheel debates can go on forever if you’re not careful:)
Check out the Blackwell Wheels,great wheels and very economical!!!
Also just as fast as any wheels on the market!
I am sure they are great wheels, but there is nothing really economical about them or any other race wheels out there. The most you can hope for is to buy wheels that you can race and train on. At least then you can get a lot of use out of them. Nothing is more frustrating than having 1k-2k worth of race wheels hanging in the garage rafters for 360 days of the year :(.
Thats your opinion,I do not disagree with you, but I am not sure you understand the power savings and efficiency of a good set of proven aero wheels.
I think I do. As I have previously owned Zipp 404/909/999, Hed3 and Alps wheels. I almost always finish in the top three of every race I do and have been very, very close to qualifying for Kona. I get the time savings and don’t really deny that race wheels save you some time. They make me faster. In the end does it really matter though? I think not, but I will continue to ride race wheels on race day. Maybe one day I will finish 10 seconds a haed of the next person for that last Kona spot. Until then I only ride race wheels because they look cool. I guess that’s as good as any reason though :).
I guess Faris Al-Sultan rides the Xentis wheels at Kona because they “handle so bad” in the crosswinds. And I know Faris is a bad example because the guy is kind of a flake and sloppy with his bike setup but I still doubt he would ride slow wheels.
Bottom line is that ALL wheel manufacturers reference the tests that make their wheels look good and these tests are usually ones they do themselves. Zipp shows results from their tests, HED from their tests, etc. It is called good business. Personally I am interested in what wheels are putting up the top times and which pros (who are sponsored byother companies) are riding wheel sets from companies that do NOT sponsor them.
I don’t think the Xentis is a good pick for an average rider because they cost way too much but to just dismiss them and say they are not as good as Zipp or HED is just wrong and uneducated. Last time I checked Kona is one of the toughest places on earth to race in terms of crosswinds, etc and if the Xentis gets it done there then it has to be worth something.
Just for the record I do NOT ride Xentis wheels and prefer HED3c but that doesn’t make them the best. Just the best for me.
I have no idea what parts of your post are intended for me. I never said the Xentis wheel handled bad in any of my posts. I did mention something about the testing and how independent testing makes more sense to me. Yes, all wheel manufactures reference data that makes there wheels look best, but there is also plenty of independent research out there. I could care less what the pros ride. I am not a pro. There is absolutely no way I would ride the crap most of them are forced to by sponsors, or because they lack the money to buy something nice. One of the benefits of being employeed in the for profit business world I guess.
I wouldn’t ride Xentis because there are better options that are more proven. Hed wheels for example are more aero, lighter and cheaper. Certain models (Stinger for example) are sure to handle better. Maybe even the Hed 3 does as well. I don’t know. Seems to me that this is an “educated” way to look at things. I would also say that an “educated” person knows that Hed and Zipp are the safe bets concerning wheels.
Back to the original post- there are two really good wheel manufactures out there and they remain Hed and Zipp. Maybe there are others (Renn, Blackwell come to mind) but none that have the history that Hed and Zipp have. They remain the two best wheel manufactures and continue to offer the best products for triathletes.
I still don’t know why you replied to me. Maybe you were addressing all of the posts collectively?
Even if they have been bashed here, I love my Nimbles tri spokes. Very light, durable and feel like regular spoked aero wheels.
They ride just as fast as 808’s, close to a disc in most wind situations.
I ride the Xentis clincher.
Main advantage IMHO is, that with the replaceable breaking surface (alu rims) and replaceable hubs, they are - if you don’t crash - built to last, even if you ride them 365 days a year in all weather.
And the alu breaking surface is sometimes a big performance advantage, they brake better.
About aerodynamics, I dont know, but I guess if they are good enough for faris to ride away from the field in 2005, they should be good enough for me.