jTenniswood started an interesting and insightful thread about Ironman TV rating vs. athlete prize purses. It was thought provoking.
Along that same theme, what do people think about the “state of the union” at WTC and Ironman? Too corporate and mercenary or are they the savior of the sport?
Here’s my .02 cents to get it started:
While there have been some negative aspects of Ironman growth and WTC’s “commercialization” of the sport overall it is a good thing that has raised awareness and participation.
Totally disagree with you. Too large, too corporate (see my other post about IM NZ), too much drafting at many races, partly due to huge fields all starting off at the same time. I know a very quickly growing number of long-time Ironman triathletes who are saying, “no more” and who are either going on to other things or moving to smaller, non-WTC races. The main reason I’m not going back to NZ in a few weeks is that it’s now “the cool place to go race”. But that’s me.
I agree. The WTC and the whole Ironman brand/franchise has been a hugely successful business and riding along in the wake of that success has been the sport of triathlon. No question that triathlon has been a huge beneficiary.
There are those, that are quick to be critical of the WTC, but in my mind, it is a private company and can do what ever it wants. At times the organization seems a bit bullish, but there are many good things that it has done for the sport.
It is interesting what the future will hold. Certainly right now and for the immediate future, the numbers are impressive, but will the current wave of interset and enthusiasm continue? In the running business every year, they say that this is the end - that the marathon madness will cease. Well, for at least 5 years now the “experts” have been wrong and the numbers of runners and those training for and entering marathons continues to grow significantly. I see the same for triathlon and Ironman for at least the next 5 years - continued growth. So don’t sell the shop!!
Well, to start they can’t be “too corporate”, they are a for profit corporation, like it or not. USAT is quasi public, but not WTC.
That said, in order for them to maximize their profit they have to provide a service that people want and are willing to pay for. I think that they are in trouble here. A small percent of people go into a Mdot race with the hopes of qualifying for Kona. I think many of those are on the verge of going to the many regional IM distance races in the future.
As far as the union thing, I don’t see it being very effective. Their are only 4 or five stars per gender whose boycott would be noticed versus the huge nuber of basball, basketball, etc players. A threat of a boycott might get the purses doubled, but no way will they get the payout up over half the revenue like in team sports.
I’m with you on the overcrowding and drafting. That is no good, espcially when you have to devote a lot of energy to not getting a penalty unintentionally.
Also, the sport going “mainstream” and becoming the “cool place to race” does, I think, take a little something away but I think that is offset by the feeling of being part of something really big. I like that part- feels like you’re in the Olympics or something. In my opinion, that is kind of fun. I think that is where our outlooks differ.
As a businessman, I regard growth and commercialization as generally good things. They result in more events, better funded events, better prizes and coverage, etc. In chosing between WTC events around the world, we have an incredible wealth of riches in terms of locations, courses, and organizational quality. I’m doing Brazil this year and can’t wait to try some of those in Europe and Asia-Pacific.
Importantly, there’s absolutely nothing stopping any of us from starting our own triathlon series (ironman-distance or otherwise) and competing with them, if we think we can do a better job. Several great non-WTC ironman-distance events (Great Floridian, Vineman, Californiaman, Roth, etc.) are doing just that. Folks that don’t like WTC for whatever reason can happily race those. There’s enough to go around.
And if the alternative is something led / monitored by our sport’s governing body, I can’t think of how that would result in improvements. Commercial enterprises tend to beat non-profit or governmental ones every time. I’d love to see many more people making money off of our sport. That money gets earned only when businesses provide a good or service that meets the needs of those willing to pay.
It’s interesting: The “Ultramax” guys seem to be developing a series of races that are intended to compete directly with WTC events. That seems healthy- it offers an alternative. I hear nothing but good things about those races so far.
I lost any potential respect for “corporate ironman” during the “inaugural” Ironman Utah.
I do not know a local race director who would purposely send athletes out in unsafe conditions. But a more faceless corporation has no qualms about it. It seemed all about money to me - they certainly weren’t going to refund the race fees (or even a portion), even though they had picked a notoriously bad body of water (both chemicals and wind conditions), so they sent the athletes in, and one died. Could that have happened under normal race conditions? Sure. But they showed exceptionally poor judgment and took minimal responsibility - and that, only after some pressure. Very disappointing and more about the $$$ than the sport.
I think the extremely serious problem at Utah and also at California are absolutely indicative of an organization that has grown perhaps too quickly for the good of the customer (participant). I absolutely agree with that. That is the downside.
Sorry, but what is wrong with corporate and big. Money makes sport go around. If you want tri to be big, then we need money. If you want a fringe sport from the late 70’s early 80’s the best equivalent we have today is Ultraman, on the big island, or your local event, that you and your buddies put on during a weekend, with manual timing, free entry fee, a BBQ in your backyard afterwards and the only awards are bragging rights.
The work that the WTC and IMNA have done with the proliferation of races and growing the brand are great for the sport overall. Do I like everything ?..absolutely not, but the net is certainly positive. I do agree that the 2000 person mass starts are ridiculous, and only after a few more people die, will the race organizers and the various tri federations come to their collective senses on this one.
Maybe some of us don’t. If people do, then they will vote with their checkbooks/credit cards. I do races of all types–I’ll be doing an IMNA race at Ralph’s. I’ll probably also do at least one local race that never, ever will be USAT sanctioned. The RD doesn’t even have a website. You have to search out his races. He runs a clock but doesn’t give awards. I’m still waiting for results from a race last Memorial Day that were going to be mailed out. I’ve done both Ultramax races and think Mark really has something good going that is not corporate and seemingly money grubbing.
Like I said, if people want corporate and big (and some do), then vote with your entry fees.
Well, as irongeek pointed out, what happened at Utah is not acceptable. The race was unsafe due to weather conditions. In California a man died falling on a descent. Perhaps if more adequate controls were in place these events may have been different. Perhaps not.
The looming specter is that the company has grown too much too fast and along the way been “forced” or compelled to focus on aspects of the operation other than safety and logistics in the interest of growth and expansion.
That may not be the case with WTC, but it may be also. That’s why I started this thread. I wanted to see people’s opinions.
Not everybody wants corporate and big. One of my favorite races, Marathon des Sables, unfolds in the middle of no where away from cheering spectators, huge sponsors and big TV deals. It is about the competitors, the race, the culture, the desert and the things that happen between them. But few people know of the race. It is a secret gem.
Nothing wrong with corporate and big. But do you want to be Walmart, or do you want to be Target? Target’s not as big as Walmart, but they also don’t have the same sort of large scale complaints about illegal labor practices, the squeezing of suppliers until the suppliers have to pay sub-minimum wages to meet Walmart’s prices, or the complaints about manipulating prices to drive small businesses nearby into bankruptcy (and then pricing goods higher than you used to pay at the small store).
There’s a right way of being big and a wrong way of being big.
Tom and Cathy, I certainly agree that not everyone wants corporate and big. There is a tradeoff though. We have a huge infrastructure of equipment manufacters, local bike shops, coaches, nutritionists, sport docs and a race every weekend in every region, both small and large. Back when it was “fringe” there was nothing: no tri bikes, no tri wetsuits, no coaches, no heart rate monitors, barely any races, no awesome forums like slowtwich, that draw the collective wisdom of people from around the sport to trade ideas, no pros, no prize money. Remeber when Hawaii had no prize money and the big race for the PROs was Nice ?
Don’t get me wrong. I like small and large events. In fact, if I can’t find an event that suits my need, I organize my own. You can read about one of them (EPICMAN) here:
I am amazed at all you folks in Northern California complaining about events selling out. You don’t need to race an organized event to do triathlon. You can organize your own training events. Then you can have grassroots. No USAT, no entry fees, no Tshirts, no chip timing, but lots of fun. Try it. Get 20 of your buddies together and put one together.
"The main reason I’m not going back to NZ in a few weeks is that it’s now “the cool place to go race”.
this gives a guy cause to wonder . . . . if the cool thing to do is to NOT go to events which have BECOME the cool place to race - wouldn’t the truly cool then GO to said races? otherwise, you are not cool as the people flee the race, thus putting you in league with all the people once again and thus in a not cool position!
or something like that.
myself, i live in a state where nobody is remotely cool and life certainly seems easier.
I just wanted to clarify that the WTC and the Ironman North America races are not the same body. Tom knows this but many others get confused on it. The WTC the Ironman name etc, IMNA runs the NA Ironman races. So what? Well you’re principally talking about IMNA on the thread but note that IMNZ is run by different people in a completely different company. Issues occuring at race level are the result of the local team and the race director so whilst there maybe a higher level of rules laid down by the WTC, drafting issues and resolution on the day are not directly a WTC issue.
Getting back to Tom’s question, the Ironman brand has brought wider recognition to a small sport and whilst it’s still the pinacle for many, it garners a lot of focus from the general public. The Ironman races bring a measure of quality, though mishaps happen, and I for one have found the races around the world to be of the highest calibre. Room for improvement? Always, but then everything can be improved. I’m competing in IMNZ in a couple weeks and can’t wait. The hardest issue being faced today is to manage the growth of the distance - races selling out in a day is nuts, but that’s a whole different thread.
So - the WTC; being the owner of the name they are ultimately responsible for everything m-dot. Ironman xyz (races/watches/bikes/wetsuits) all fall under this and I think that the brand has grown well. With so many different interests to satisfy it’s a tough role, but Ironman as a brand is better known today than it was before and the sport is booming, so they must have done well. It’s hard coming from an athlete perspective to see “Ironman” the distance be “Ironman” the brand that so many non-athletes wear on their wrist…but then they wear Nike too and they don’t run. If Ironman can retain its core values but sell to a wider audience, and therefore grow the sport then that’s a good thing. Marathon’s grew hugely in the 80’s and remain as popular today as they once were - hopefully Ironman will do the same and all triathlon will benefit.
tim
btw - Dan wrote a great article on the WTC - suggested reading for all in this thread.
Tom, is part of the question of safety have to do with the growth of the the sport, but not because IMNA has turned a blind eye to safety, but because the sport has grown so much, that it is mainstream, and more and more people participate, including people who might be at a greater risk of having problems? We all read the threads about people who don’t give IM racing enough respect and don’t train for it enough. It would be impossible to make an IM race completely idiot-proof, especially when people are complaining about the costs already.
