Would the ACLU Have Sued George Washington?

The Coffee Shop
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For signing the Thanksgiving Proclamation? George Washington’s
1789 Thanksgiving Proclamation

Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor; and Whereas both Houses of Congress have, by their joint committee, requested me “to recommend to the people of the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer, to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness:”

Now, therefore, I do recommend and assign Thursday, the 26th day of November next, to be devoted by the people of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being who is the beneficent author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be; that we may then all unite in rendering unto Him our sincere and humble thanks for His kind care and protection of the people of this country previous to their becoming a nation; for the signal and manifold mercies and the favorable interpositions of His providence in the course and conclusion of the late war; for the great degree of tranquility, union, and plenty which we have since enjoyed; for the peaceable and rational manner in which we have been enable to establish constitutions of government for our safety and happiness, and particularly the national one now lately instituted’ for the civil and religious liberty with which we are blessed, and the means we have of acquiring and diffusing useful knowledge; and, in general, for all the great and various favors which He has been pleased to confer upon us.

And also that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations and beseech Him to pardon our national and other transgressions; to enable us all, whether in public or private stations, to perform our several and relative duties properly and punctually; to render our National Government a blessing to all the people by constantly being a Government of wise, just, and constitutional laws, discreetly and faithfully executed and obeyed; to protect and guide all sovereigns and nations (especially such as have show kindness to us), and to bless them with good governments, peace, and concord; to promote the knowledge and practice of true religion and virtue, and the increase of science among them and us; and, generally to grant unto all mankind such a degree of temporal prosperity as He alone knows to be best.

Given under my hand, at the city of New York, the 3d dy of October, A.D. 1789.

(signed) G. Washington

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Thank heaven we don’t allow this propaganda in our schools.

Oops. Did I say heaven?

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Yes, they would have sued George Washington immediately after he and the Continental Army won for them the freedom to do so. Then they would have moved on to other radical religious American extremists, too…

   ROBERT E. LEE: "In all my perplexities and distresses, the Bible has never failed to give me light and strength." (p. 21)

DANIEL WEBSTER: “If we abide by the principles taught in the Bible, our country will go on prospering and to prosper.” (p. 21)

JOHN QUINCY ADAMS: “I have made it a practice for several years to read the Bible through in the course of every year.” (p. 22)

ABRAHAM LINCOLN: “I believe the Bible is the best gift God has ever given to man. All the good from the Saviour of the world is communicated to us through this book.” (p. 22)

GEORGE WASHINGTON: “It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible.” (p. 22)

HORACE GREELEY: “It is impossible to mentally or socially enslave a Bible-reading people.” (p. 23)

THOMAS JEFFERSON: “I hold the precepts of Jesus as delivered by himself to be the most pure, benevolent, and sublime which have ever been preached to man. I adhere to the principles of the first age; and consider all subsequent innovations as corruptions of this religion, having no foundation in what came from him.” (p. 45)

THOMAS JEFFERSON: “Had the doctrines of Jesus been preached always as pure as they came from his lips, the whole civilized world would by now have become Christian.” (p. 47)

BENJAMIN FRANKLIN: “As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, is the best the world ever saw, or is likely to see.” (p.49)

WOODROW WILSON: “The sum of the whole matter is this----that our civilization cannot survive materially unless it be redeemed spiritually. It can only be saved by becoming permeated with the spirit of Christ and being made free and happy by practices which spring out of that spirit.” (p. 143)

PATRICK HENRY: “There is a just God who presides over the destiny of nations.” (p. 145)

THOMAS JEFFERSON: “Material abundance without character is the surest way to destruction.” (p. 225)

THOMAS JEFFERSON: “Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern, which have come under my observation, none appear to me so pure as that of Jesus.” (p. 237)

GEORGE WASHINGTON: “The foolish and wicked practice of profane cursing and swearing is a vice so mean and low, that every person of sense and character detests and despises it.” (p. 283)

BENJAMIN FRANKLIN: “Here is my creed. I believe in one God, the Creator of the universe. That he governs it by his Providence. That he ought to be worshiped.” (p. 301)

CALVIN COOLIDGE: “The strength of a country is the strength of its religious convictions.” (p. 305)

GEORGE WASHINGTON: “The perpetuity of this nation depends upon the religious education of the young.” (p. 306)

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I thought Dan set up rules for civil dialog.

I pray that you be banished for quoting these subversives.

Oops, did I say pray?

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that’s pretty funny. You’ve got a few people in there who might have led moral/value based lives, but for a large part, you list a bunch of racist, womanizing assholes.

But hey, they read the bible, so it’s ok.

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Somedouchebag has got it nailed. We need to spend more time concentrating on every flaw of every great character in American History, especially if they are white males. Otherwise, we will be spending all our time studying what they did that made them great leaders.

Personally, I am much more comfortable comparing myself to the great leaders of the past by ignoring their contributions and focusing on their moral failings. It is much easier to reach their level by pushing them down instead of doing the hard work of raising myself up. This process is made much easier since they aren’t around to defend themselves. This whole approach is a win - win proposition.

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ajfranke,
Somedouchebag probably forgot about some famous quotes from one of the more righteous moral leaders of our time “I did not have sex with that woman, Ms Lewinski” or “depends on what the definition of is is” :wink:
.

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We need to spend more time concentrating on every flaw of every great character in American History

certainly, if you consider being a slave owner and/or being a well known racist and/or being a womanizer to be something as trivial as a flaw.

especially if they are white males

This is likely the first time someone has ever hinted that i was being PC; i hold 'em all to critical standards.

Otherwise, we will be spending all our time studying what they did that made them great leaders.

I’ve looked into it, and for the most part, the secret involves lieing, misleading, and most of all, manipulating. There’s not much else to learn.

by ignoring their contributions and focusing on their moral failings

You are forgetting that in this case, their contributions are there stance on the importance of the bible. Again, in this case, their moral failings are very relevant. You are barking up the wrong tree, as i only pointed out the irony of slave owners, racist’, and womanizers commenting on the importance of the bible.

If Bill Clinton is teaching me about economic theory, or Isreal/Palestine relations, his moral failings are not relevant. If however, he is telling me his opinions on the importance of the bible, his moral failings are very relevant.

It is much easier to reach their level

why aspire to reach someone elses level?

You can still learn a great deal from people with moral flaws, i just discount their opinions on morals and the bible. If you want to teach someone something from their (their being many of the quoted persons) opinions on the bible, teach them irony.

much easier since they aren’t around to defend themselves

What’s there to defend?

Sir, did you own slaves?

Different Sir, were you a racist?

Other Sir, Did you cheat on your wife?

edit; something as

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You also bring out another good point I had forgotten. In order to offer any moral opinion on any subject you first have to be morally perfect yourself. Unless you are without flaws, keep quiet.

Furthermore, we are entitled to judge historical figures by 21st century standards, rather than the standards of the time in which they lived.

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Unless you are without flaws, keep quiet.

OK, jesus.

Again, if owning slaves, womanizing, and being a racist are considered to be something as trivial as flaws, then perhaps you are right. Either way, i just point out irony and contradictions. I don’t have to set moral standards for most people, they do that for themselves. I haven’t judged anyone, i just pointed out what i observed to be paradoxical behavior. There is a difference between judging someone, and pointing out that persons contradictory behavior.

Furthermore, we are entitled to judge historical figures by 21st century standards, rather than the standards of the time in which they lived.

HAHAHAHAHA HA

Excuse me, WHEN HAVE THE MORAL STANDARDS OF THE BIBLE EVER CHANGED?

Again, you are trying to pick the wrong bone with me.

Do you have any counterpoints? i’m a fan of sarcasm if you can defend it with something besides more sarcasm.

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What’s your point? :-p

as art would have it, your contrbiutions to the slowtwitch discussion forum are so great that i will ignore your seemingly contradictory behavior.

Using my logic however;

More importantly tibbs, you haven’t made any proclamations to the importance of God and the bible in your life. If you made a claim that having God and the bible were necessary aspects of your life as well as the lives of all people, and you still owned slaves, cheated on your wife, and were racist, i would have a both a problem with you, as well as a point.

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I guess my counterpoint, absent the sarcasm, is that we are blessed to live in a country that was brought into being by the hard work and the force of ideas of the people quoted above. That country was so constituted as to allow you caustically attack the very men whose vision brought that unique country into existence.

Thomas Jefferson, in particular, would smile at the fact that you have the freedom to do that.

By the way, I think he was the only one of the above that didn’t not free his slaves during his lifetime. He freed them upon his death. He probably would have freed them during his lifetime, but for the fact that he was such a poor farmer and businessman that he would have gone broke if he forfeited that asset. Yes, he was not perfect.

If you want to excoriate such a group with such a broad brush, I won’t argue with you. I just smile at the fact that, thanks in large measure to them, you are blessed by the fact that you can do it without consequence.

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You can still learn a great deal from people with moral flaws, i just discount their opinions on morals and the bible. If you want to teach someone something from their (their being many of the quoted persons) opinions on the bible, teach them irony.

Well, as Christians we are told in the Sermon on the Mount that all sin is equal. Cursing a man is as sinful as murdering him. Looking at the hottie thread is as sinful as adultery. Therefore, since all men are equally sinful no one can ever make a statement regarding morals? Nope.

Some of the best drug rehab counselors are former addicts. Some of the best ministers were once atheists. As a Christian, I am not any better than anyone else. But that doesn’t keep me from recognizing a higher standard to which I should aspire. I can also tell you that you should have a smooth, round, pedal stroke even though mine is nowhere near perfect.

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Thanks for your words Bill. Couldn’t agree more. Its why we as Christians do not look to man for how we should live our lives. We are all fallible and sinners. Aspiring to be more Christ like is the only way to live your life. If I, as a Christian sin that does not make me a hypocrit, just a human being.

Bob

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For signing the Thanksgiving Proclamation? George Washington’s
1789 Thanksgiving Proclamation

Surely you’re not suggesting that nothing has changed in the past 215 yrs.

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Yes, they would have sued George Washington immediately after he and the Continental Army won for them the freedom to do so. Then they would have moved on to other radical religious American extremists, too…

ROBERT E. LEE: “In all my perplexities and distresses, the Bible has never failed to give me light and strength.” (p. 21)

These men really are to be admired for they had the understanding to establish a country with a secular government, where they could hold their religious belief and others could hold contradictory ones and the government would allow both.

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"“you list a bunch of racist, womanizing assholes.”

Wait I’m not on the list. "

well, you ARE a skinhead.

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Well, as Christians we are told

don’t assume i am a christian, or that all christians interpret the bible the smae way you do.

Therefore, since all men are equally sinful no one can ever make a statement regarding morals?

jesus was a man.

we are told in the Sermon on the Mount that all sin is equal

only if you literally believe, word for word, a collection of books, written by human beings, in some cases hundreds of years after the fact (jesus’ life being the fact), that are subject to human error, that offer contradictory literal messages, and that have gone through several versions of language translation.

Read the bible and report back to me with all the contradictions you find regarding variable levels of sin. You can start with the ten commandments if you’re having trouble.

Some of the best drug rehab counselors are former addicts. Some of the best ministers were once atheists.

but they are not atheist when they are ministers, and they are not drug addicts when when they are giving counsel. That is a key difference.

As a Christian, I am not any better than anyone else.

Then why do you feel the need to say that?

Spare me. i am better than a lot of people (at what? life? that’s all subjective, but it doesn’t really matter), and i’m not affraid to admit it.

I can also tell you that you should have a smooth, round, pedal stroke even though mine is nowhere near perfect.

And it would still be ironic. I would also find it funny. Where does that leave us?

oh wait, IT LEAVES US BACK TO MY ORIGINAL POINT THAT SLAVE OWNERS, WOMANIZERS, AND RACISTS’ GIVING MORAL GUIDANCE IS FUNNY AND IRONIC.

edit; added a word

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As I’ve posted before, I really can’t understand all the ACLU bashing I’ve seen here and regularly hear from the right. When I have the time, I might start a thread explaining my position in detail. In the meantime, I’m curious - do Conservatives not like the 1st Amendment?

Seriously, I’m sincerely baffled.

'wolf

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Sure we like the first amendment. Have you stopped beating your dog yet?

We also like the Boy Scouts. How about you?