i run 30 miles per week now, and during my peak i run 40 miles per week,
its my 4th ironman this year. do you think i have to run more to break my gold time. my best is 4.05 im 52 work full time, and i train about from 12 hr a week to 20 hr per week on peak season.
thank`s
I’d say your chances are certainly better than mine. I just ordered this from amazon:
It will at least give you a training plan so as to give it your best shot. There are other books that might work better. This is just the one I picked, and haven’t received yet.
Good luck.
the answer is no. You do NOT have to run more this year. You have to BIKE more.
How to run 4 hours or less off the bike at Ironman:
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Be able to run a 3:30 to 3:40 open marathon, or even MORE accurately an open 10k that would predict that you can run a 3:30 open marathon.
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pace the bike correctly. A correctly paced bike is one that lets you run the run split on or about your predicted time based on your open 10k time, ie. hopefully 4 hours in your case.
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Bike your ass off in training. To run faster off the bike you have to bike more in training.
Don’t listen to anyone about running milage, volume, etc. it doesn’t matter. Plug in your numbers into www.triathloncalculator.com or the McMillan running calculator and see where you stack up.
good luck.
I guess the author of the book should write “3 months to a 3 hour marathon” and while he is at it, send Haile the “2 month to a sub 2 hour marathon” edition.
To the OP, what is your open marathon and 10K times?
Uh-oh. I’ve been training for over 6 months.
100% agree on the bike part. The 3:30-3:40 marathon makes sense too, but how is a 10k that predicts a 3:30 marathon more accurate than actually doing the marathon?
I ask b/c I’m one of those guys whose long distances are considerably slower than what the shorter distances predict.
Haha, this made me laugh. I think there’s a few of us in this trouble!
Ditto on the bike.
You can run 100 miles/week, but if you have cement legs in T2, forget about it.
40 mpw is certainly enough for some people to break 4hrs. You? Don’t really know you.
Bike fitness is key as well. Eganski has run faster than I have in an IM run even though I’m ~30sec per mile faster in an open run.
look at a vdot table. If you pace the bike correctly you should be able to maintain a easy/long pace for the marathon. good luck.
yes, open marathon time is the best predictor of an open marathon performance, but I feel open 10km time is a better predictor of IM marathon performance.
even better, your random easy run pace on any given Wednesday for example is probably the pace you’ll run on IM day
My guess is doing a 10k which predicts a 3:30 marathon is not necessarily for the sake of accuracy but because it is a pretty solid indicator of what an athlete is capable of without the harsh side-effects running a full marathon can reek on the body.
Additionally, I would suggest to you if your short distance races (I’m assuming 5k-10k times) predict a faster time over longer distances (half and full marathon) you likely suffered from pacing and/or nutrition issues over the longer distances. Either that or you are training too intensely without enough volume for the longer distance races.
this is total none sence. The 10km open race is a poor indicator of your ironman marathon prediction performance. they arent related at all… it s one of the worst element to predict performance over a ironman marathon.
it s very simple…fitness will make the OP break 4h in a ironman marathon with a good overall prep with good swim and bike fitness leading up to the race.
With 12h of training and 20 at peak… a good coach could guide you to that goal…
-consistancy
-frequency
-good periodization
-learning to pace yourself
-get your homework done for swim and bike fitness, pace yourself and if you have done your homework about running…there you have it!
good luck and hope you reach your goal!
the best element to predict your marathon is a 5-6h honest ironman ride with a 10-15km off the bike, from there, i will predict very well your run time at the race.
I have to agree with jonnyo.
How in the world is a 10K a predictor for an IM marathon? Those are totally different races. I also agree that biking more = a better IM marathon (if you are running 40 miles/week which is plenty if you are biking lots as well).
Good luck!
even more, i jsut went and try the calculator. I m not a big fan of those and from what i have seen, this one sure dosnt work… it predicted for me a
1:09 swim
4:43 ride
3:06 run…
well, i beat those time by
49 swim
4:4ish rides…
2:55runs…
it s very simple…for those looking to altready made plan with a machine coaching you… go to those calculator and you will get not much out of this.
ironman is a one sport… not 3… it as to be approche in a smart way and i can guarrenteed you my athlete will outrun a lot of people in a ironman that have faster 10km open time because i train athelte to be fast at ironman or other triathlon distance and not a 10km run…
To bike more isnt the magic solution to the equation. I can still bike more, ride at a suicide pace and have nothing left for the run. or i can be in bad bike shape, ride very smart and with in my limits and run a personal best. Ironman as to be approche as a one sport thing where OVERALL fitness, and pacing will get you to do well in the 3 part of the race.
so any minutes pass in the pool, bike and running will help you reach your goal. but to know how to structure the training to be consistant and make improvement week after week and rise your overall fitness to be able to go for 8-10-12h+ is where the difference really his…
I have to agree with jonnyo.
How in the world is a 10K a predictor for an IM marathon? Those are totally different races. I also agree that biking more = a better IM marathon (if you are running 40 miles/week which is plenty if you are biking lots as well).
Good luck!
thanks for the reply. my only marathon was 2003 i did 3.45 in vancouver. for my training i have been following start to finish by huddle and frey, for 3 year pretty cheap with good result i think, and i have increase the running. my finish at imc is 10.51 my best, but the thing is those hill coming back from ok fall are brutal,i will try my best and see what happens thank`s again
You could just bike really slow for the 180kms, then get off fresh and run like in the movie ‘Chariots of fire’.
But the above is not really the answer you want I guess.
Ran 4hrs 5mins myself for the marathon in an iron-distance race 4days ago.
Want to run faster also and intend to do it by focusing on consistent training and doing a few more build-up races, whether it be pure run races or shorter distance triathlons than the iron-distance. Also am hoping to do Roth this year and am thinking i will go faster on a faster course.
Running on rolling hills and keeping your run training varied and interesting should be useful also.
G.
Only one way to get faster on the Run…
SPEEDWORK!!!
(p.s. you do not have to increase you mileage)
Do track intervals at a 10k pace
For example…my 10k pace is about a 6min/mile
so I typically do 10x 1000meters repeats (2.5 laps on the track) at a 3:45 pace. Rest 1:00.
Depending on your fitness level you can start with 800meters or even 600 meters. The key to this is pacing…don’t go faster in the first 3 sets cause you are fresh.
One last thing…i did this once/week on wed. workout takes about an hour with mile warm-up and mile cool down. Usually at 5:30am cause its cooler
hope this helped.
Leo
Jonnyo,
I said only four things, and we essentially agreed on them all. Why you call it nonsense, and then go on to talk about proper coaching, my methods of predicting performance, and generalizing everything into “a good overall prep and good swim and bike fitness leading up to the race” I don’t understand. If only it were so easy as to have a good prep and then everything will take care of itself.
Prep is great but once the battle is joined it’s all out the window and only good execution based on the conditions of the day will help. As I said, the four things I mentioned re: running 4 hours off the bike were:
- a well paced bike. This is the most important, to get the OP in the mindset that it’s not about running, it’s about the bike.
- the ability, at some before you race the IM, to run a 3:30 marathon, which can be predicted by an open 10k instead of going out and running a full marathon.
- Bike your ass off in training. This is totally in line with what you say about overall fitness. I’m not saying the OP should stop running, but that the key to the fastest possible combined bike and run split is in the bike training, bike pacing, and latent speed ability in his run legs.
- how fast you run on an random wednesday easy run is probably the pace you’ll run off the bike, not full marathon times. many ironman triathletes never even run a full marathon. therefore open 10km time is probably a better predictor of your performance than an open full marathon.
You mentioned coaching, periodization, and good prep. I agree with these as well but it’s a different topic really. The one thing I wish I would have mentioned, which is in line with your comments about coaching and such, is specificity. The OP should spend as much time as possible running in his long runs at a fast pace, rather than the LSD most people tend to do.
Also, I disagree w/ running off the bike for 15k as a predictor of running off the bike for 42.195k. I’m sure you or I could run 30 seconds to a minute per mile faster than our IM marathon pace on only a 15km test. I don’t start fading until 15k, as I’m sure you don’t either.
Finally, I know those online predictors don’t work for most, but they do for some. I’m not sure if the OP was aware of them, so I let him know. I don’t know what you entered, but looks like you mis-typed your swim volume (no comma?). Surely as a pro triathlete you are more fatigue resistant then most which could explain your excellent run time, which I bet is very close to your open marathon time.
thanks,
Eric
Hi,
I am in agreement with Jonnyo.
More background needed for a good answer to the OP.
You have done 4:05 at IM in past…
My Questions: how did the whole race turn out? a 52/5:15 and a 4:05 is a death march, a 1:10/5:45 and a 4:05 is pretty solid.
How many IMs do you have? and if more than one, how is the time drop from one to the next.
My solid IMs (18 out of 26 IMs) have finished with an IM mary that was 25 mins on avg slower than my open mary (3:30 to 3:05)
For me it was training lots of frequency on the run training (5-8 runs per week in the 12 week build)
long runs maxed at 2 to 2:30hrs 1X/week
1hr run (med pace) off of bike minimum 1X/ week in 12 wk build
Hopefully some power gurus like Lakerfan might chime in for how to pace the bike training and racing to set up the optimal bike run combo.
But whether you do the bike by RPE, HR or Watts, the bottom line is to ride fast, but leave enough in your tank so as to not give up too much ground on the run from fatigue. Example, If you can ride a 5:30 and run a 4:00, but can ride 5:15 and survive to a 4:10: I say do the latter.
Your results may vary
Cheers