Sorry slow reply, been traveling. Upgrade to build 266 and all should work fine, let me know if any issues.
Fantastic, thanks. I was holding out on the purchase, until this was rectified, so I only had to do one import.
Andrew,
In 2001 you wrote,
http://lists.topica.com/lists/wattage/read/message.html?mid=901936066
“Choice of 40k TT power as basis: Average power during a 40k TT provides a logical basis for a training system because it correlates very highly with power at lactate threshold, the most important physiological determinant of endurance cycling performance…”
In your book, you define FTP as,
“The highest power that a rider can maintain in a quasi - steady state without fatiguing for approximately 1 hour.”
Now you say,
“FTP is a functional estimate of the highest exercise intensity at which you can maintain metabolic control. The maximum duration that individuals can maintain that intensity differs, but it is generally in the 30-60 min range. IOW, you shouldn’t view FTP as being tied to a specific duration.”
If people can only maintain FTP for 30 to 60 minutes why was FTP originally set at approx 60 minutes and not 45 minutes?
Andrew,
In 2001 you wrote,
http://lists.topica.com/lists/wattage/read/message.html?mid=901936066
“Choice of 40k TT power as basis: Average power during a 40k TT provides a logical basis for a training system because it correlates very highly with power at lactate threshold, the most important physiological determinant of endurance cycling performance…”
In your book, you define FTP as,
“The highest power that a rider can maintain in a quasi - steady state without fatiguing for approximately 1 hour.”
Now you say,
“FTP is a functional estimate of the highest exercise intensity at which you can maintain metabolic control. The maximum duration that individuals can maintain that intensity differs, but it is generally in the 30-60 min range. IOW, you shouldn’t view FTP as being tied to a specific duration.”
If people can only maintain FTP for 30 to 60 minutes why was FTP originally set at approx 60 minutes and not 45 minutes?
Because 1) the standard distance for TTs is ~40 km, not ~30 km, and 2) trained individuals will more likely fall toward the upper rather than the lower end of that 30-60 min range.
(BTW, the same pragmatic thinking went into choosing the durations used in the now out-dated power profiling approach. For example, while on average an effort slightly shorter than 1 min is the best single indicator of fatigue resistance during very high intensity exercise, it takes most people a bit over 1 min to ride 1 km, which is the standard distance used at the World Championships. The power profiling tables were therefore built around 1 min power.)
BTW, your penance for constantly trolling is to study this statement until you grasp the meaning:
~40 km (or ~1 h) power is to FTP as a sample standard deviation is to a population variance
Do not post again until you do (and once you do, you won’t need to post again on this subject).
BTW, your penance for constantly trolling is to study this statement until you grasp the meaning:
~40 km (or ~1 h) power is to FTP as a sample standard deviation is to a population variance
Do not post again until you do (and once you do, you won’t need to post again on this subject).
I wonder if this would help (probably not).
Do not post again until you do (and once you do, you won’t need to post again on this subject).
Andrew, not sure if you know but the updates to the forum have brought the ability to hide users posts. You may still see posts if another user quotes the ignored user and as an “ignored post” in the threads
Although I haven’t been able to purchase wko4.0, I created a second PMC in 3.0 to match what I was seeing in 4.0 without the starting value, and as of last night the two are finally almost matching (maybe off by half a point).
Tim - Are there any plans to let a user pick which FTP they want iLevels based on, sFTP or mFTP?
Tim - Are there any plans to let a user pick which FTP they want iLevels based on, sFTP or mFTP?
Sorry, but that’s not really possible.
Andy is correct, the idea of iLevels is that they are based off your actual PD Curve (levels above FTP), NOT just a % of FTP so it would not work.
HIJACK:
Here is a link for everyone. We formed a new Facebook Group to lets people build charts and exchange ideas. This has REALLY taken off and there is an amazing amount of cool things being built and shared. Join and scroll through, some pretty cool stuff happening with some pretty smart folks sharing their thinking. Just go to this link and request to join if interested: https://www.facebook.com/groups/WKO4powerusers/
Sorry for the hijack but the FB Group is pretty cool…
they are based off your actual PD Curve (levels above FTP), NOT just a % of FTPThanks for the explanation.
WKO4 will sync with TrainingPeaks based off settings found on the Athlete Details page. The goal of sync is to “synchronize” (we tend to think about sync as a way to get files, not synchronize) with TrainingPeaks. This means that information will move back and forth and keep them in lock step. Sync can (and should) be set to every hour, this means that once an hour your WKO4 automatically looks for any new data on TrainingPeaks ensuring you are always current. There are different sync options based off account types.
Coaches:
- Download only - Coaching accounts download only to ensure they do not change an athletes data on TrainingPeaks. As the coach you use the data but do not own it so, for now, we are limiting the data to download only (see notes below).
Personal:
- Upload and Download Options - since your data you can move it back and forth.
**Now, in TrainingPeaks the notes are different and are built to allow for edits and actual back and forth comments. This function will allow for you to move notes back and forth in notes as you see fit. That being said, it is currently disabled till next week as we had concerns that people would struggle with it at first and create a whole bunch of oddities in TrainingPeak accounts. Will launch next week with instructions / videos. **
One important caveat: WKO4 moves the actual original files back and forth, not summarized data. In TrainingPeaks Thresholds and Weight are stored as summary data in the TrainingPeaks files. This means that athletes weight and thresholds are NOT synced between the two. This is more complex then you think as goes back to ownership of data. In WKO4 you can use the weight and FTP history setting to change ALL historical files. What happens if you get a new athlete, review the data and decide to change their historical FTP, then you lose that athlete and when they look deeper at the data, see that you changed everything? This is an area (who owns the data) we need to create some solutions on that take this into consideration so watch for updates.
Hope that helps!
Hi Tim,
I kind of put WKO on the back burner waiting to try some of the changes
I updated the build and synced this AM and two things
- I am not seeing the ability to sync changes to notes or other, done in WKO. Was this implemented ?
- Because I have not used it for about 45 days, it seems to sync the last 30, but workouts in days 30-45 don’t seem to sync. Anyway to pull them down ?
thanks
Andy is correct, the idea of iLevels is that they are based off your actual PD Curve (levels above FTP), NOT just a % of FTP so it would not work.
HIJACK:
Here is a link for everyone. We formed a new Facebook Group to lets people build charts and exchange ideas. This has REALLY taken off and there is an amazing amount of cool things being built and shared. Join and scroll through, some pretty cool stuff happening with some pretty smart folks sharing their thinking. Just go to this link and request to join if interested: https://www.facebook.com/groups/WKO4powerusers/
Sorry for the hijack but the FB Group is pretty cool…
Too bad it is only on FB, very limiting forum, many people do not have FB, is there a way to open this up so it is on FB, but doesn’t require FB account? I’m not going to create FB account just to read stuff about WKO4…
Marcag,
Notes sync back and forth based on a series of simple rules, try it and you will figure it right out. On a daily basis, WKO4 only syncs back only about 30 days (there are a few underlying rules) so the sync runs quickly. Try this:
- Check for updates - you should be on B296
- Open the athlete details page and click the EDIT button on the TrainingPeaks Athlete line
- Enter user info, wait to you get the account valid message, then change your sync from “Download only” (or what ever you have) to “Do Not Sync” then back to your “download only” and close UI.
- Sync with TrainingPeaks.
That should trigger a full resync of all your files in TP. Let me know if any issues.
The Facebook Group is just a bunch of people talking about ideas and charts. You can do that here, either Andy or I tend to reply when needed and help where we can.
Is there something specific you looking for? Help? Advice? Have an idea of something you would like to analyze or track? Post it, can help!
To Andrew Coggan. Today I read your article about runner power metric. What runner power meter would you recommend for get best data?
Just FYI, I just had an exactly identical experience to refthimos in Post #249.
I’m a Golden Cheetah, user, but just got a coach who works in the TP/WKO sphere.
So I have my folder full of 5 years of FIT files that I wanted to upload for him. And I wanted to understand the WKO features he’s using so I sprung for the ~$130 personal upgrade copy of WKO4.
Same as refthimos. I was surprised that WKO4 apparently has no native file-reading capability. So I downloaded Device Agent and tried to use that to synch to WKO4. It repeatedly either crashed or either froze so long that Windows asked me if I wanted to kill the program. I switched to synching to trainingpeaks.com. Same deal. So I started uploading in much smaller batches 3-4 months at a time. That seemed to start working. Although the interface isn’t great. There’s no progress bar or “circular arrows synch animation” like in other similar programs, e.g. GC, Xert. You just stare at the screen and hope it’s doing something. Then just check to see if data is actually showing up.
Then I ended up having a bunch of duplicates because my crashing episodes apparently had done something. And there’s no duplicate-detection like in Strava. So I had to go manually delete duplicates.
I think I got it all sorted out, finally. But what should have been maybe a 10-minute operation took me around two hours. Not an auspicious start to my WKO4 experience. I hope it’s all uphill from here.
Edit: I understand this could be considered a Device Agent rather than WKO, issue, mostly. As a software engineer myself I suspect that the Device Agent file upload routine is actually blocking the main GUI event-processing thread. Which is a huge no-no in GUI design. But I’m reporting it to this thread anyway because I’m apparently required to use DA to do bulk upload to WKO4?
Could you provide a link to this article please? And in view of the fact that Andrew Coggan is a consultant for Stryd running power meters, my guess is that he would consider them to be the one to purchase!!
Trail,
In the athlete bar, hit new athlete. Assign a name, lets name him Joe Simple, or maybe Jane Simple.
Now drag and drop all 500 .fit files over WKO4 and drop, UI will pop up and ask if you want to assign those 500 files to Joe or Jane simple.
Then watch progress bar till complete.
Give it a try with any .FIT from the group, will see how easy it is.
…and Device Agent is going to die very soon, do not use it, messes things up. Use the native file parser found in WKO4 which can be drag and dropped or set to auto sync every hour with your TP account OR just plug in your Garmin Device and it will see it and automatically load any new files (like Strava but no KOM). Here is a great help article showing all the different way you can get files in: http://help.trainingpeaks.com/...out-files-into-WKO4-
I would start again as the crashes tend to happen when people mess with the folders. Close WKO4 delete using PC find and remove program then drag and drop the WKO4 folder in documents into the trash. For make, drag the application from finder into the trash, then drag the WKO4 folder into documents into the trash. If stable, you probably worked trough it but might be worth doing it right before you start, up to you, glad to help if you need it.
Should watch this “Getting Started” video as you get started, will help: https://youtu.be/...H_fz5oO9UwwVm_KXsLQ3
Here is a “playlist” of all the how to videos: https://www.youtube.com/...skGICU-jM_bzecPQuAjC
Here is a “playlist” to all the learning webinars: https://www.youtube.com/...H_fz5oO9UwwVm_KXsLQ3
I would join the facebook user group, they really are doing some amazing cool stuff. https://www.facebook.com/groups/WKO4powerusers/
Sorry for the confusion and frustration you had. We try to keep things simple and put out support materials to avoid…