I don’t have a background in running but I’d like to use this winter to get my run leg a bit more competitive. My focus is going to be Olympic distance triathlons.
Should I:
a. Do repeats of 10k - 15k running plans throughout the winter?
b. Work on volume, volume, volume and let “10k olympic tri speed” take care of itself when the dust settles? If so, what kind of volume would be truly breakthrough volume? (FYI- I just got up to 40-50mpw for my fall marathon training. Highest I’ve ever done, but feel like I could work up to 70 mpw if necessary).
Think frequency - days/week of running. Take a block of time - 3 - 4 months and try and run as many days/week as you can. The miniumum lengthof a “run” should be around 20 mins. If only doing Olympic longest runs( and only one or two a week should be in the 60 - 75 min range.
IMO, Volume + some strides. 40-50 is plenty for OD. Don’t worry about 10k speed until 4 weeks before you start racing.
40-50 is perhaps plenty for a person with a running background. But for a non-runner to get to the point of running… say a 35min 10k, don’t you need to have the kind of run focus that involves much higher volume than that?
Yeah but are we talking about OD 10K or are we talking about open 10K? IMO 70 mpw is high even for an open 10k, especially for someone w/o a running background. You might not even make it to the starting line w/o injury. And 70 mpw while biking and swimming if training for a OD? I guess if you don’t have a job and can sleep 12hrs a night and take ice baths mid-day you will be ok. And maybe you can, so yeah go for it.
Just don’t neglect the swim and bike in an OD. the swim takes a far larger % of overall time in an OD than say a HIM or IM.
I’m not too worried about bike and swim. This IS going to be a run focus.
If 70 mpw is too high for open 10k’ers why do competitive highschool and college athletes train up to 100mpw if not more? I’m sure they aren’t alll training for distances that are greater than 10k.
I’m not too worried about bike and swim. This IS going to be a run focus.
If 70 mpw is too high for open 10k’ers why do competitive highschool and college athletes train up to 100mpw if not more? I’m sure they aren’t alll training for distances that are greater than 10k.
Well sure they do, but they’ve been doing that for years. You say you are new to running. If you have the background, then yes it is definitely possible, easy actually. I was assuming you have very little running background, b/c you stated that. And that doesn’t mean that for a run focus you can’t try to build up to large weekly volume. Just listen to your body and be very mindful of pending injuries. If you can work you’re way up to 70 and you are recovering and staying injury then that is great. You could probably make a really good runner then!
No it’s really not. he is already at 40-50mpw. How hard do you think it is to take someone from there to 70mpw?
It’s neither hard to do, nor would it take more then about 6 weeks.
**for someone w/o a running back ground, yes, it is. **
So what does a running background consist of? Someone who has run a lot. So to develop, someone needs to run a lot. I had a “runnning background” if you will, but it consisted of way too much speedwork and too little volume (and coaching) ever since high school. When I wanted to run 70 mpw I had to patiently work my way up to that sort of volume, just like the OP will need to do if he want to gain endurance on the run.
However, I see a lot of people (athletic ones even) who do triathlons for years and years and are still mediocre runners (~42min 10k). I’m really hoping to breakthrough that level to become a competitive runner. I’m just not sure if 40mpw will do it. Especially if I don’t have the base from a running background.
It’s nearly like the chicken and egg question. I’m sure everyone who’s ran 70 mpw was at some point a person “with no running background”. I guess the biggest questions here are:
Is running huge volumes required to be a truly competitive runner?
If so, how does one build up to that point w/ minimum risk to injury?
I feel that the argument instantly rejects 70mpw based on a “lack of running background” is the reason why triathletes are mired in mediocrity. The better solution would be to come up with a way to train up to that level (if that is indeed what is required to be truly competitive).
**I’m not too worried about bike and swim. This IS going to be a run focus. **
Are you not worried because you don’t anticipate a problem maintaining your bike and swim volume or because you don’t intend to do as much of them? The problem I see with many run focuses for triathletes is that they become a better runner but don’t improve as a triathlete.
There are a number of ways to improve your run (better bike pacing, more bike volume, more run volume, run intervals) in triathlon. However, if you run more and ride less you won’t be gaining anything. I’ve found that maintaining a 1.5/bike to 1/run training ratio helps me keep my bike and run splits in balance. My last tri I had the 20th or so fastest ride and the 15th fastest run. When I first started tri, I actually ran more than I rode and my splits were usually; run top 10, ride 60th or 70th or 115th. Running well in tri requires you to combine appropriate bike volume with a balanced amount of run volume. Now, if you live in Northern climes then I would naturally make that high ratio of run to bike during the winter, but any loss on the bike or gain on the run would have to be made up in the spring.
I’m not worried because I feel that I have time to catch up on the bike next year. And yes, I live in a northern climate, so I won’t be able to ride over the winter months anyways.
So all other disciplines aside, how do I become the best runner I can, over the winter months - 10k training programs or massive volume?
Yes I agree that if you build up slowly from where you are now and are careful then you can probably run 70mpw and will definitely become a better runner. Will you be a better triathlete though? I don’t know anything about your background so I can’t say, but just want to put that out there.
edit: just read cdw’s post, i agree with that completely
I don’t have a background in running but I’d like to use this winter to get my run leg a bit more competitive. My focus is going to be Olympic distance triathlons.
Should I:
a. Do repeats of 10k - 15k running plans throughout the winter?
b. Work on volume, volume, volume and let “10k olympic tri speed” take care of itself when the dust settles? If so, what kind of volume would be truly breakthrough volume? (FYI- I just got up to 40-50mpw for my fall marathon training. Highest I’ve ever done, but feel like I could work up to 70 mpw if necessary).
You should probably mostly work on volume but virtually every week should include some sort of speed. It doesn’t have to be a track workout or a race or anything structured or timed. In fact, over the winter, it’s probably best if it isn’t. Just throw in 20-25 brisk minutes in the middle of a run once a week. Make them “comfortably hard”. Tempo-ish. Or perhaps do a run where you work all of the uphills hard. Or maybe just 5 to 10 random 30-second to 2 minute pickups in during a run.
That and endurance are all you need for now. The endurance is all about the weekly mileage
Is running huge volumes required to be a truly competitive runner?
A conversation I just had this week about what got my friend to the next level.
Coach: “Marc, do you want to beat those guys in the 800m next year?”
Marc: “Yes I do, Coach.”
Coach: “Those guys run 75 miles a week in the summer.”
In Marc’s college senior year he ran 75 miles a week in the summer, took over a minute off of his 8K time, and almost 2 seconds off of his 800m time…and yes, he beat those guys.
High volumes aren’t required, but it helps alot!
If so, how does one build up to that point w/ minimum risk to injury?
You have to gradualy build up, listen to your body, and recover when you need to. For a lot of people it’s hard to run 70 without at least two doubles a week. A 70 mile week for me (which I haven’t done in a really really long time…maybe this coming spring (fingers crossed)) looked like this:
Monday: 5 mile recovery run
Tuesday:10 miles
Wednesday: 5 miles AM…5 miles PM
Thursday: 12 mile second long run
Friday: 5 mile recovery run
Saturday: 5 miles AM…5 miles PM
Sunday: 18 mile long run
DD will probably have a different plan, but I think a good approach is to first establish that you can run your max mileage. In your case, 50 mpw? Once you are in solid 50 mpw shape, add 10%. So you’d run a 55 mile week. How did it feel? If you don’t feel fully recovered, then repeat it until you start to feel fresh, then add 10% again…now you are at 60mpw. Repeat this process. You may never hit 70 mpw. You may only get to 65 mpw. OR, you may run 75. The point is, listen to your body and don’t push to hard in too short a time period.
Great response BarryP. Everything that I was looking for. Thanks!
One more question- we’ve been talking a lot about the 70 mpw number, but thats an arbitrary figure I pulled out of thin air. Is there a better number to aim for assuming that I’m capable of it? From your experience, is there a point where the returns of high volume running varies among individuals, etc?
I guess what I’m getting at is, is it possible to say “In general, most people can run up to 95 miles per week and have it improve their running. Anything beyond that depends on the individual- for some it may actually hurt their performance.” etc…