Wind tunnel fun - a few surprises

I had some fun in the wind tunnel this weekend (see pictures a few posts below)

Here are a few of the highlights:

  • The Nike Swift Spin (US Postal) skinsuit actually tested slightly worse than another suit (a brand which I won’t divulge until I get one or two more)

  • Downtube bottle added measurable drag. Even the vaunted Biodinamica bottle added drag.

  • I needed my elbows wider than I ever would have guessed before (Christopher from PKRacing.com deserves credit for this revelation)

I highly recommend this experience to anyone who really wants to improve their bike/TT times. I started with some pretty good numbers, but we managed to knock about 10% more off the drag. That’s big.

More details and discussion on biketechreview.com forum.

Of course the suit tested slower.
It’s a US Postal suit on a Cervelo. Now if it was a CSC suit…

How does a regular person get wind tunnel time? Or maybe you aren’t a “regular” person??

-Colin

Who did you do the test with?

Haim

Looks like that site collapsed under the load. Let’s see if this works:

Warming up. Note the display projected on the floor in front of me. The Nike swift spin postal suit actually performed worse than another skinsuit (not shown).

http://tinypic.com/54f5e8

Here’s what’s on the display. This was from the baseline (first) run. We managed to improve the numbers by about 10% with some changes.

http://tinypic.com/54f5fp

Control Room View. The technicians control the windspeed and the amount of resistance to the rear wheel.

http://tinypic.com/54f5hs

The LG Rocket Helmet. This worked very well for me – even with the furschlugginer strap hanging down.

http://tinypic.com/54f5og

Kraig Willett (biketechreview.com) carefully marking positions with a dry-erase marker. This is critical for doing static comparisons of equipment to make sure you keep your position exactly the same.

http://tinypic.com/54f5nr

what does it means in $?

Hmmm…can you test the Tufo Tubulars with that wing tunnel setup?

Mike

I went through multisports.com. I think it was $750. To put that in perspective, it saved me more than a disk wheel in performance.

I should also add that my original fitter (pkracing.com) got me almost all the way there. A good part of my improvement came from implementing one of Christopher’s recommendations, which I had foolishly chosen not to implement before.

– Jens

Jens,

Great data! Super position. What was the “Christopher’s recommendation” that you speak of? Wider elbows? I’m sure you did, but did you test very narrow elbows as well? What is you max watt output in that position. And what was your optimized drag coefficient?

~Alan~

You’ll need all the aero you can get when they move the NWTT to Hood River!!!

Hey Jens

you are just going to crush us at Sattey!!!

see you there

Dan…

Jens,

Great data! Super position. What was the “Christopher’s recommendation” that you speak of? Wider elbows? I’m sure you did, but did you test very narrow elbows as well? What is you max watt output in that position. And what was your optimized drag coefficient?

~Alan~

I didn’t test very narrow elbows. I don’t know about max watts in that position - I think I got over 600 at one point yesterday. Maybe you mean threshold watts? I held about ~313 for 35 minutes testing the position yesterday.

Final CDA was .2172. I’ll leave the more detailed data to the biketechreview forum.

One lesson I got from this was that most, if not all, changes are very individual. Behind the seat bottles will work for one person but not another. Same with aero helmets. The only way to know for certain is to test.

– Jens

Couple questions,

What’s your average for a TT at that many watts?

What kind of front wheel is that? Are those dimples?

I haven’t done a flat time trial in almost 1 year. Here in S. Oregon, everything’s up-and-down.

Last year I averaged about 27mph at the very flat Dunlap TT. That was two position revisions ago (probably about a .26 CDA); power was ~290.

–Jens

Jens

How did you find the LG Rocket? Comfort, heat etc. The other LG looked really small in comparison.

What is your drop from seat to pads and elbow width.

Thanks.

Jens

How did you find the LG Rocket? Comfort, heat etc. The other LG looked really small in comparison.

What is your drop from seat to pads and elbow width.

Thanks.

The Rocket is hot, especially with the visor.

Drop is about 15cm, elbow width is only a little bit less than that. Remember though, this stuff is highly individual. I’m a former powerlifter, so I have pretty wide shoulders for my size and my legs go pretty wide when I power up. I also have unusually short femurs…and so on. Someone else could try to copy this set-up and it would probably be a disaster for them (unless they matched my peculiar morphology).

–Jens

Where were the outside of your elbows relative to the outside of your thighs both before and after?

Dave

what front wheel is that?

That’s a Zipp 808. I’ll not mention it again nor will I put the logos back unless Zipp sends me a free rear wheel. :wink: I hope Josh is listening.

-Jens

“I needed my elbows wider than I ever would have guessed before (Christopher from PKRacing.com deserves credit for this revelation)”

What specifically do you mean by this statement… either I read it wrong or you meant that a wider elbow resulted in less drag… which seems counter intuitive to the idea that less frontal area results in less drag… wouldn’t wider elbows result in more drag. Or, are you referencing more power gained from having wider elbows.

I’m a bit confused…

Joe Moya