Why shouldn't I use Tufo Gluing Tape?

Triathlon Forum
21

What struck me most as I was scraping old glue off the rim was that the previous gluing really isn’t very evenly done… some parts are thick, some parts are thin. And you know a chain is only as strong as it’s weakest link… If any part of the tire is gonna roll, it’s gonna be the part with the least glue. Is it possible to get regular glue (e.g. Mastik) to as even a finish as Tufo gluing tape?

Actually, in most adhesive bonding applications, a thinner bond line (as long as both surfaces are fully wetted prior to cure) performs better (i.e. is stronger) than a thicker bond line.

From a rolling resistance standpoint, thinner is better as well since there will be less hysteresis losses.

I’ve used Tufo tape before, and it makes it so easy to get the tire to sit perfectly straight on the rim. Surely that helps in reducing rolling resistance (compared to an amateurly glued tire, that does not sit properly?) Plus it’s so easy to remove the tape from the rim… and it comes off nice and clean.

Do I lose very much by using tape i.e. increased rolling resistance of tape, possibly higher chance of rolling…

vs the thorough inconvenience of gluing a tire on i.e. 3 coats of glue (drying overnight…), all the mess, and the pure hell of scraping glue of the rim when the tire flats

Well…it will be possible to get a thinner bond line using glue than you will get with the tape. This is merely due to the fact that the tape is actually 2 layers of adhesive with a carrier of some sort in between. Of course, getting that thinner bond means you have to do the gluing to an “exacting” standard, which, depending on your experience and skill, may not be possible.

That said, if the tape allows you to get a more consistent result, that may be the better way to go for you. To be honest, I’ve never seen any test results that definitely show that the tape is slower than regular glue. Then again, most of those tests are also involving tires that aren’t necessarily good rolling…so the difference may be swamped in the overall number.

Or…you can skip all this hassle and convert to clinchers and gain the ability to have an “optimum” setup with a minimum amount of fuss, and with a MUCH lower time investment.

But, everyone makes their own choices… :wink:

22

“Road Bike magazine”? Are you serious?

Well, if you are into reading about this stuff then keep going. I think you will form your own opinion soon enough and it will “stick” better that way.

23

So tell me why in the Road Bike magazine they recommend the Tufo Extreme tape on the tubulars they using unstead of glue. I would think that they might know more then most on this subject. 15 watts seems very hard to swallow.

Are you talking about Road Bike Action? If so, why would you believe their recommendations about tape after they provide nuggets of “knowledge” such as this? :wink:

“There is no clincher substitute for the speed, comfort light weight and cornering grip of tubular tires - regardless of the hyperbole that a tire maker may throw at you. If you aren’t running tubulars, you are riding slower-everywhere.”

BTW, I’m sure the 15W mentioned above were mostly due to the Tufos and not necessarily the tape. That matches what would be expected from roller testing of those tires.

24

I use both kinds.

I have clincher H3s with Vittoria Evo Corsa CX Tires (20mm) on them. For TTs and Tris… very fast.

I’ll be getting a DT Swiss clincher wheelset and putting Michelin Pro2race tires on them. Will be using it for crits… lower rim weight for quick accelerations, and no worries about rolling a tire.

This tubular wheelset (zipp 303s) was going to be exclusively for road races in good weather… collegiate level racing, so not many mountains / descents, and cornering isn’t hard in road races compared to crits.

25

What struck me most as I was scraping old glue off the rim was that the previous gluing really isn’t very evenly done… some parts are thick, some parts are thin.

This sounds like an example of poor technique. If you apply a thin layer multiple times you can get a nice smooth application. It takes more time, because you need to let the glue dry after each application, but lumpy gluing is avoidable with a little bit of patience.

Victor

26

Tom, Yes, Road Bike Action, Granted I must admit I thought they would be a fairly reliable source on this subject… :o(.

Not really sure who people should be listening too on a subjuct like this or other subjects for that matter. There seems to be an awful lot of people that have the “right” answers on ST, who to believe, that is the question.

27

Tom, Yes, Road Bike Action, Granted I must admit I thought they would be a fairly reliable source on this subject… :o(.

Not really sure who people should be listening too on a subjuct like this or other subjects for that matter. There seems to be an awful lot of people that have the “right” answers on ST, who to believe, that is the question.

Personally…I like to listen to the folks who have objective data to back them up…but, maybe that’s just me :wink:

28

http://engr.ku.edu/~kuktl/

Select ‘Online Articles’ from the Bicycle Research category on the left.

They are currently still conducting more tests which haven’t been published online as of yet.

29

“You’re comparing 2 variables at the same time…” and “so you can’t attribute the slow feeling purely to the taping.”

No shit? I knew that…and that’s why I said it was a very unscientific evaluation…too many uncontrolled variables…or did you miss that part? The S3 lites are slow too…but they are REALLY slow with the tape. I didn’t say all the loss was due to the tape. I’ve tried them both ways. I’ve tried conti’s both ways. I’ve tried vittorias both ways. The tape loses any way you go about setting up a comparison.

And since the published data shows fairly conclusively that the top clinchers out-perform even the best tubulars with the best glue jobs…I thought it illustrative to point out what you might be giving up to that sort of setup…

30

Because Zipp suggest not to use Extreme, or Fast Tack.
It’s on a pdf on the Zipp website (in a really big font).

31

The tape is similar to a softer glue, which means it’s messy when removing the tire, and doesn’t hold quite as well. It makes it easier to centre the tyre, but you increase your chances of rolling off the rim. A harder glue applied thinner will be less forgiving in terms of aligning the tire, but will hold better in extreme conditions, and will have much less roll risk. That said, I’ve seen 7 cases of people rolling tubulars, and six were using tape (The one that wasn’t using tape, was cornering in extreme heat, and from what we saw it looked like a spoke broke first, then the rim buckled and the tire rolled off causing a crash). Three of the ones using tape were in crits, one in a tri, and two in Road Races. In terms of cleaning the rim, it takes time, I tend to use lots of Goo Gone, and usually can do both wheels in an hour or less. I usually do 2-3 coats of thin Clement Mastik (I wear surgical gloves, bead the centre of the rim, and then smooth it out with my finger, for an even smooth layer, with between 2-24hrs between coats, and after mounting the tyre, I usually let it cure for a minimum of 36hours, but if I can at least 48).

I’ve never used the tape on my own, but I’ve helped people clean rims afterwards and find it a night mare, since it’s soft and messy.