the avg D1 football team will have about 90 players but not everybody is on scholarship. Each sport , if I remember correctly has a NCAA scholarship limit.
I’m not arguing that the place that football has is necessarily right on some moral level. At my D3 college, the Mens’ and Womens’ Swim Teams were always one of the three best in the Conference. Both teams lost fewer meets over the entire four years that I was there than the football team lost in any one year. The College President did not miss a single football game, but could never get to a single swim meet ever.
But, even with our pathetic football team, far, far more alumni came to football games than swim meets. I went to Michigan for law school and my MBA. I would much rather watch a Michigan football game on a great fall afternoon with 107,000 others than go to a Michigan swim meet.
You are also comparing apples and oranges when you compare roster sizes. An NFL roster might be 53. But, there are people constantly coming and going with injuries. A team might actually have much more like 80 on the roster at some point in time in the year. And no one is being “redshirted”, which is almost essential for offensive linemen to get to the size that they need to be to play big time football.
Finally, do you think the NCAA makes any money on college swimming? What about NCAA football? Ever hear of the BCS?
I’d guess that they make more off men’s basketball tourney rights than BCS rights. Wasn’t that a billion dollar contract?
It just seems like its too easy for both revenue and non-revenue sports to get involved in spending way more than they necessarily should because that’s what everyone else does and they want to stay competitive. I’d just like to see more NCAA rules that actually led to athletic programs decreasing expenses, not more NCAA rules involving the number of ink colors schools are allowed to use in recruiting materials.
My school’s D3 football team won the national championship the year after I graduated, beating both Mount Union and St. John’s in the process. I even had the bumper sticker on my car until I lost that bumper in an accident. 117 man roster, but the NCAA only let about 50 guys dress for the title game.
"You are also comparing apples and oranges when you compare roster sizes. An NFL roster might be 53. But, there are people constantly coming and going with injuries. A team might actually have much more like 80 on the roster at some point in time in the year. And no one is being “redshirted”, which is almost essential for offensive linemen to get to the size that they need to be to play big time football. "
Sure, but there are what, 32 teams? My point is that there are exponentially more college football players than NFL players, and if you could eliminate a couple 4th or 5th string backups here and there, you could get a whole other sports team out of there.
“the avg D1 football team will have about 90 players but not everybody is on scholarship. Each sport , if I remember correctly has a NCAA scholarship limit.”
Yes, I think that’s right, but as far as Title IX or females in sport are concerned, colleges are supposed to provide sports teams roughly in proportion to the enrollment of the student body. So if you have 20% females, about 20% of your athletics program is supposed to be females. If you have tons of extra guys on the football team, and are unwilling to cut back on some spots, you might have to cut one of the smaller guys teams. That could be avoided by dropping your 4th or 5th string backups at a couple positions.
(if someone is a lawyer and I’m wrong on my info about Title IX, please let me know.)
I’m totally with you on this…and I am a pre-Title 9-er.
Was treated different in school because I was a girl…1/2 court basketball, the 60 instead of the 100 yd dash, etc. It sucked then and I don’t like it now.
Let me say I don’t think women’s only races are any ‘less than’ physically or accomplishment-wise than their mixed-sex counterparts, I just have real difficulty with the mindset that assumes women need an easier, softer way to participate in sport.
Have first timer’s races, newbie waves, whatever…but don’t make special accommodations based on sex alone.
G
The NCAA does a wonderful job of having a ridiculous number of silly rules and enforcing them in an almost random fashion. I am fairly sure that NCAA rules were broken in the attempt to recruit me to swim when I doubt that I would have been much better than a 4:40 500 swimmer had I gone to a very good college program and focused on swimming instead of focusing upon drinking like I did at my D3 program. I can only imagine what major programs do to recruit great athletes in “money sports”.
What I would really like to see is college sports return to being a part of student life for actual students that belong in college. Now, that would really be something.
“What I would really like to see is college sports return to being a part of student life for actual students that belong in college. Now, that would really be something.”
When you have college age kids, send them to a military academy. Everyone does a sport, either varsity or intramural, the academics are still the primary focus, and they don’t even need Title IX to get them to do it since Title IX doesn’t apply to military schools.
If all women had this attitude, then our society would have a lot few problems. However, after nearly seven years of marriage I have observed my wife enough to know her pretty well. She would rather run on a treadmill than outside. This is incomprehensible to me, but I think it is because she is extremely self-conscious about her appearance in race clothes. If all-women races bring in a few women who would otherwise rather be dead than be seen in public by men when they are wearing wet, clinging lycra then I say “Good for them.”
Also, if there started to be a bunch of men-only races that I wanted to compete in but wasn’t allowed to because of what my swimsuit is covering, I would be TICKED OFF!
If there is a man out there would would rather race only with other men, then he has lost him mind. Not only are many women in triathlon very attractive, (contrary to the opinion of someone above), but they bring a whole different atmosphere to races.
I’ve never been a huge fan of Title IX after having been on the receiving end of the reverse discrimination it can produce, but if all those post-college Title IX women take up triathlon looking for another challenge, then I might change my opinion.
Chad
“Nooooooooooooooo! I do not want to be treated differently because I am a woman”
My wife feels the exact same way. She races one women’s only event each year but only because it’s held in a different area and gives her an excuse to visit some old friends who live there. She much prefers a mixed tri than a women’s only event. The women’s events are nice in as much as they tend to attract newbies who are less likely to be intimidated on their first tri, but as you say, there is a time to get over it. If all tris were segregated by sex, I’d soon find another hobby.
You people need to get out more.
Nooooooooooooooo! I do not want to be treated differently because I am a woman"
Totally agree with this sentiment. I find it fully weird that for most of the tri season I can compete quite happily with the girls, get beaten by some of them, and race shoulder to shoulder with others, and then suddenly there’s this women’s only race that I can’t enter because I am a man.
What do they think is going to happen to the women in a mixed gender race?
The training facilities that Michael Phelps will be using in a couple weeks were bought and paid for with money earned by the guys in the winged football helmets.
Those are the ugliest helmets in college football. Michigan Sucks.
GO BUCKEYES!!
Freestyle:
“THEY” won’t let me out at all. 
Trust me on this. At may age, no one wants me OUT.
-Robert
Those are the ugliest helmets in college football. Michigan Sucks.
GO BUCKEYES!! Just the kind of fine, thoughtful, analytical reasoning that I would expect from that school in Columbus.
Men in triathlon … well, I hate to be the one to point this out … but triathlon ain’t the most masculine sport in the world. Look at the “uniforms” and grooming (shaved legs) that is expected. Not too many guys are just dying to wear/do that.
Plus … tri-training is damn hard. Our society is undergoing a sociological/psychological sex change. Women are gradually becoming the men of this society. Women seem to have the desire, work ethic, and well … balls … that used to drive men to success and to answer the challenge. I do quite a bit of reading about Manhood/Husbandry/Fatherhood, and quite honestly a lot of what I read (famous, well-respected authors) make manliness and manhood (not oppressive behavior) sound extinct (or at least endangered). I was raised by a “modern woman” and married one also. Men are surviving on the stigma that women cannot be great leaders. Once that wall is smashed down, society will turnover like an hour glass. You can’t say women haven’t earned it. What was this thread about? Oh yeah … triathlon stuff. sorry.
I’m also impressed that the numbers of male and female participants in tri keep rising despite wide-spread obesity.
It’s the same type of thing you see in high school activities … a small group of people do all the activities. The larger group do nothing.
What the growth of tri likely means is that there is another fitness-type hobby that is dying (i don’t know what it is).
But, even with our pathetic football team, far, far more alumni came to football games than swim meets.
That’s the swim team’s fault for not advertising that you can “get drunk by the pool” during a swim meet.
College football is more about the event, than it is the game. It’s a “be seen” event.
Freestyle … You should wait until you see female triathletes in makeup and nice clothes before you judge their “attractiveness”. I’m as handsome as they come, and after hours of racing I ain’t exactly the cat’s pajamas either.
What’s goofy to me is the male triathlete. 30 years old, 12-13-inch arms, 160 pounds, not a hair on his body … that’s not for me, even though I have a ton of respect for what those guys do on the course.
I think I covered about 15 topics in one post. That’s my quota. I’m out like oxford sweaters.
Cathy,
Thanks for the numbers. Great perspective.
The same thing is happening in running. In fact a number of large running races now have more than 50% women! For many years prior to the recent surge, the participation of women in these types of events had been around 10%, but it has been steadily and dramatically growing since the mid 90’s.
As for the older women taking part - the only older women that I know who take part have been at it for years. They were the true pioneers who got into running and triathlon years ago and are still at it. I hope that the current younger generation of women who have taken up these activities stick with it. The health and social benefits are enormous.
Fleck
“a number of large running races now have more than 50% women”
Since starting triathlon, it’s made me appreciate women’s athletic accomplishments so much more. Not that I was not appreciative before, but I never gave it much thought since the only mixed activity I had ever done previously was recreational curling league.
As a middle aged MOP AG’er I get beat regularly by lots of women, not nearly as many on the bike, but I’ll certainly get clobbered on the swim, run or over all time. It amazes how fast some of these gals are.
I don’t see anything wrong with women’s only races. You may be an independent, strong minded and willed person. That may not be the case with everyone. There are many women who feel more comfortable in a women’s only gym, or womens only triathlon. These are the same women who would never enter a gym or a tri without the “women only” option.
I feel that by letting women who are not as strong as you do things to allow them to improve their physique, their confidence and their outlook on life. In this day and age, no one is going to take away your opportunity to race side by side with the best athletes regardless of sex. These races (and gyms etc.) are additions to the multi gender venues, not in place of.
That all being said, my girlfriend beat me by 25 minutes in an olympic distance race last week She is like you, she will never race in a “womens only” race.