I’ve read on the cervelo site that reach is more important than TT length.
but isn’t the distance from the saddle to the handlebars what really matters? sure you can move the saddle forward and backward, but only within the limits created by the position of the seat tube and the type of seat clamp and post used.
Reading what Gerard says about shortening the TT length by moving the seat tube forward - why does it matter?
the TT is still shorter and the saddle is still closer to the head tube right?
I tried to compare the soloist geometry to the trek but trek makes it very hard to find their data. the damn pdf file is brutal to read.
“but isn’t the distance from the saddle to the handlebars what really matters”
Of course. Top tube length is only just one factor in determining reach. It’s the fixed length component of the equation. Saddles can have 2-3 cm of fore/aft adjustablity and stem lengths can vary by up to about 5 cm within an acceptable range…
All things considered, a short top tube and longer extensions will lead to twitchier handling, I suggest not going shorter than you normally use on a road bike. However I use a 57 Arcole and 58 S-Works, but the top tube length of both bikes are very close.
and what Gerard said about the distance between the BB and the head tube.
that’s important for handling I suppose, and important in how it affects your postion on the bike, but how it affects the distance from the saddle to the head tube?
it doesn’t.
maker the seat tube steeper should make the top tube shorter and the reach shorter. no?
*I think its just an easier number to work with. Lets say you are comparing bikes with different seat tube angles and different top tubes - the website says 54 cm top tube for a 76 degree bike vs. a 52 cm top tube on a 78 degree bike. My first question is “how do they measure?” . Do they measure the same? How does the seat tube angle change the effective top tube length if I ride at 77 degrees? or 80 degrees?
You can do the same thing with top tubes vs. reach numbers but its easier with reach - plus reach is specifically defined!
Reach is a great number if you know where you want your saddle tip vs. bottom bracket and you know what reach you want…its a tad harder comparing top tubes. I just did it and bought a new bike.
interesting article by slowman but still,changing the position of the saddle isn’t the best way to adjust reach, nor is changing the stem size.
I want a top tube length that works with the saddle in an optimal position for weight distribution on the bike, which I hope would be centered on the seat rails. I’ve read the forward posts scew up the balance of a bike.
so I still say the Tt length is more important than ‘reach’
I just don’t think this is that complicated. if trek makes the tt on their wsd bikes shorter by making the seat tube steeper, so what?
they’ve made it shorter. and as long as the bike is balanced with the saddle in a slighly more forward position , what’s wrong with that??
if i’m missing something here , please tell me…I love this stuff…
Saddle position should be set in relation to the cranks, not the bars, for proper pedaliing mechanics. For balance or center of gravity, the saddle position in relation to the wheels is important. So once you set the saddle in “space” in relation to the cranks, they shouldn’t move. Now, if you push the seat tube angle forward, to get the saddle in the same place in relation to the cranks, you’d need a seatpost with more setback. So the problem is, if you push the seat angle forward, and position your saddle in the same place in relation to the cranks, you’ve increased the “reach” of the bike if the top tube is the same length.
Many companies do something really stupid that Cervelo points out on their website. They try to make a smaller size frame by shortening the top tube let’s say 1cm, but increasing the seat angle 1 degree. So depending on the sizes of the bike we’re talking about, you’ve effectively got exactly the same size bike once you get the saddle where it belongs. So shortening the top tube does not necessarily make a shorter reach from the saddle to the bars, unless you move your saddle out of whack in relation to the cranks.
Saddle position relative to cranks is another arguement entirely. We’re just talkin reach here.
so the point is you don’t move the saddle in relation to the BB to accomodate different sizes, unless you want your bikes to work differently in each size.
and obviously Cervelo wants a 48 cm soloist to handle , and have the same pedaling mechanics , as a 56 cm soloist, while having a reach appropriate for the size.
Which is great if a 73 degree seat angle is what you need, and for a road bike, most people can get pretty close on a 73 with the fore / aft adjustability of most saddles. But if you need a 75 degree seat angle (short femurs), then you might want to ride something else.