I know why tubular tyres are great. I have posted why so many times on this forum that I can’t convert everyone.
I have also really thought about this, and I must say that I should not let my competition in on my secret, even though it is not much of a secret when you consider how many successful pros ride tubs.
The best clincher will NEVER equal the best tubular in ride or flat resistance. Michelin is the absolute worst clincher that I have ever ridden. I think it is exported to the United States in response to our stance on Iraq. It is the worst tyre I have EVER ridden, allowing lots of flats. I have tried them on my clincher training wheels. I curse the name Michelin, as it is the French word for f**cking sht.
I am not going to weigh in on the current tubular debate because I know why they are better. I’ll just let the bull-headed, naive, and ignorant ride clinchers. I will let you make the mistake of riding clinchers. I will not tell you why because my answers are scattered all over this forum.
Clincher race wheels are an oxymoron. Winners ride tubulars, clinchers are for the trash heap.
the bullheaded and ignorant and naive? you slay me, bunny.
this battle was fought and over with 20 years ago. the bullheaded and ignorant lines of reasoning were seen then for what they were, and the war was a massecre.
imagine sew-up technology being INTRODUCED today, how these arguments would be seen in a rational light:
" hey here is a new technogology you must have - instead of a quick, solid and simple hook bead like every other pneumatic tire we will use a stitched up carcass and some glue to holf your tire on. instead of an inexpensive and easily changed inner tube carried in a tiny pouch and easily used patch we will have you carry a whole tire, or two strapped to your seat. we wil claim they roll better, but actually they don’t but just let us all say they do. we will claim they flat less and again there is no reason for this, again lets just say so and hope people will beleive us . . . … since so few people are on them there will be less flats and there we go! that’l work. . we’ll shave 40 grams at the rim but add 150 at the seatpost in a spare, double that for long rides - nobody’ll go for that, you say? trust us . . . . . … have i mentioned they cost more, and to repair one instead of 4 dollars and 4 minutes it will take over and hour IF you can do it at all? we will get the pro’s to ride them and of course THEY all have team cars following them and a guyback at the hotel doing that gluing and repairing thing and nobody else does but nevermind that - the pro’s are the pro’s! and, of course we will claim they “ride” so much better - what’s that? people nowadays can’t even tell the difference between the ride in inexpensive stiff large diameter welded aluminum frames and light gauge steel ( you’re kidding, right?) and so how can they possibly tell THIS difference - the difference in the SHAPE OF THE AIR IN THEIR TIRES?? well nevermind, trust me on this one . . . . . . . … .
etc etc. no way would any of that garbage get off the ground as something new. ignorant? bullheaded? yah. riiiiiiiiight.
TTN, I agree with you but there are at least 2 frequent posters on this forum who are too bull headed and ignorant and naive to be reasoned with. There is no point in trying to carry on a rational discussion with them.
As a user of both I can answer the reason why Tubulars flat less than clinchers. Most flats occur from either hitting a rock, pothole or whatever in the road and these pinch flats just don’t occur with a tubular. Proper inflation can lessen this, but the fact is anything that can cause a pinch flat won’t with a tubbie. Rotating mass and wind resistance are the two biggest forces we face and tubular rims are hard to touch in the weight area. My zipp 303s weigh a full pound less than my Rolf sestriere, and thats a pretty light clincher, and the zipps are quite a bit more aero. As for feel, the payoff for me is when I do a Criterium as the tubbies hold the road better, other than that I think I would have a hard time telling the difference. Some of the high buck clinchers certainly are no slouch. I will always race on tubulars as I rarely get a flat, I’ve maybe had 3 flats in my life with tubulars. One other thing is that when you flat with a tubular, you can still control your bike. I know that when it rains or when the road is rough, those high buck clinchers with the paper thin sidewalls (trying to be as light as a tubulars) leave plenty of stranded riders on the side of the road. So in that regard, I encourage all to use clinchers.
I ended up having to boot my Axial Pro with only about 100 miles on it. Thank G’d I was close to home. This was during my “Gee, clinchers have gotten so much better, or so I have read” phase.
we’ll shave 40 grams at the rim but add 150 at the seatpost in a spare, double that for long rides - nobody’ll go for that, you say?
More than 40 grams at the rim. You have to add the bead of the tyre and a rim strip.
That added weight at the seatpost is almost inconsequential. It does not roll.
Is a clincher repair safer? I will admit it is, but when a blowout happens on a clincher, there’s a good chance you could crash.
This tubular roll-over happens for two reasons- too low of pressure and not a good glue job.
One could argue that clinchers are easier- but one can easily pinch flat a clincher while changing it if they are in a hurry (which happens in a race).
I have tried clinchers in my “let’s see if the cycling press is telling the truth about the new and improved clincher” phase. If you think I am singing the same tune I have always sung, you should have gone out on a ride with me a few years back. My tune was “@#$%ing Michelin clinchers!!!”
I will never apologise for my opinions, maybe how I say them could use a bit of work. I know that I tend to just say what I have to say.
Maybe Michelins in France are better than they are here. I dunno. Everyone raves about them, but I had to boot one with only 100 miles on them. It could be the case of the old Soviet Hockey sticks- export quality were horrible, domestic were slightly better. I bought a dozen of domestic-quality soviet hockey sticks while I was in junior hockey and broke every single one within two games. They were marginally better than the export-quality- souvineer sticks at best (had to get a new stick in the middle of a penalty kill).
I tried the Michelins for toilet paper- very rough and it soiled my hand.
Really, who cares what others ride on? If you prefer clinchers, ride 'em. If you prefer tubulars, ride 'em. Done deal. I would guess that performance differences (if any) are likely unnoticable by 95% of us. I’ve raced on clinchers and tubulars. I’ve had flats (in races) only on tubulars…tufos to be exact. Fact is, if you run over a sharp thorn or shell or anything just the right way, you’re in for a flat regardless of the type of tire. I find changing a tubular to be a bit quicker…but who among us doesn’t spend the first 5 minutes cursing at the tire gods anyways?! I can’t really say I’m any faster or more comfortable on tubulars. That all said, I do like having my race wheels as tubulars. It’s like training clothes vs race uniform, training shoes vs racing flats, etc. It’s just something a little more special that lets me know I’m getting ready to go into battle. The few minutes spent gluing and mounting tires is just part of that process.
I’m still wondering why everyone is down on the Tufo tubular-clinchers. Yes they weigh a little more under your seat–so what. They are supposed hard to stretch the first time. From what I can acertain, they are less prone to roll off, especially if replaced in a race, can be ridden flat, less prone to flat than other clinchers, the wheels are clinchers so they weigh more, they are relatively puncture resistant.
Anyone with some extended experience with them?
I’m in the market for some aero wheels, but am in a quandry about which type, clincher vs tubular. Since I’m a newbie, I’m a little concerned about lack of practice changing tubulars. For my part, would they be a good compromise?
Why do you say they are less likely to flat than a regular clincher?
I don’t think they can be ridden flat. I sure as hell wouldn’t try it. The thing that allows tubulars/sewups to be ridden flat is the fact they are glued to the rim.
Kind of like I prefer Northern toilet paper, while my girlfriend prefers Scott. In the end, both get the job done equally well but I just can’t convert and either can she.