Crime stats are driven by a whole range of issues outside of the questions raised in this post.
Also, please refer to correlation and causality.
That.
Before Vegas 70.3 I heard a female racer say “Clearwater was awesome, you just drafted on the bike and didn’t have to work hard until the run.” Just an n=1, but that is not the sort of thing a man would say outloud.
It does not seem that men draft with a proportionally higher frequency than women do.
Sorry for the hijack, but what is the etiquette of confronting another racer in one’s AG about drafting? I did a race this weekend and repeatedly passed the same rider, only to see him pass me again being towed by a different rider. I saw him about 8 times, each time sucking wheel. I eventually asked him, “hey, do you plan on drafting the whole race?” To which he replied, “I’m not, I’m keeping a distance of three yards.” I told him it is supposed to be 3 bike lengths, not yards. To his credit, he did not say anything untoward or offensive, that I could hear…
I have never seen a group of women in a pace line
I sure have. A pack of about 6 womens went by me at Muncie one year
No. Ethics are not influenced by gender.
Gender and crime statistics tell a different story.
Don’t let political correctness cloud your thinking.
Right back at you. Gender and crime statistics tell us… Gender and crime statistics. The topic of ethics is much broader than crime, and many crimes by women are less reported and prosecuted.
Ouch!
Beside men drafting in general (in my opinion), the worst is a woman age grouper tucked in a male draft train. I see that as often as I see men drafting. They all suck (in my opinion).
I’ve seen women road racers(circuit race in Austin)jump into the passing men’s pack in order to drop their competition, and stay there for a while.
So going by crime statistics you are saying some races of people are more unethical…Wow. So if we just look at who is in jail per % of race, we know who is more unethical? Please explain. I need to be enlightened…Don’t let political correctness hold you back
Never heard of testosterone? That explains a lot of bad male behaviour.
My observations as an AG female racer…
Both sexes can be guilty of drafting. I tend to think men are worse, but it could just be that there are more of them on the course. I do feel like men’s egos are more tied up in having a fast bike split.
I like to think the the FOP female racers are mostly riding clean, so I really hope the poster who mentioned this is wrong. I do think it depends a lot on the course. There are some races that just attract people that are looking for a free ride. In the results they may appear to be FOP, but on a fairer course they aren’t.
For that reason I pick courses that either have hills or organize the waves in such a way that keeps the faster men’s groups away from the women.
Did a race this year that basically had all the women starting together behind all the men’s waves. It was great.
As for swimming with all women…I don’t find it a problem at all. Benefit is you get to clean water faster. Con is there are less or no feet to flow.
It’s because the men average higher speeds. Not trying to be sexist or discriminatory here, but it’s true.
It takes far higher power to make a +2mph pass at 23+mph than it does at 20mph. There is an exponential increase in power required. Thus, passing (let’s say, at 2-3mph faster) is much harder for the faster rider. When you’ve got a big crew of male AGers averaging 23+mph (surprisingly common), you’re asking them to push 26+mph to make an effective pass, and then for them to not recover after the pass. Compare to female AGers who might be of a similar level, averaging 21+mph - more realistic for them to get up to 24 to pass and hold it.
Thus, a lot of guys end up stuck behind each other, unable to put down enough power to pass without blowing up and falling back. Next thing you know, a pseudo-paceline has formed. And once you’ve got that going, it’s IMPOSSIBLE to pass, as you often have to pass 4-5 guys at 26-27mph to make it to clear ground, if not more.
The higher avg speed for males in effect ‘compresses’ the guys together in a nondrafting race. Which leads to drafting.
I haven’t even raced at Clearwater, but I’ve done smaller races without tons of people, and I’ve been surprised at how easy it is to get stuck in a potential draft situation - I’ll be cruising at 23.8, come up on someone doing 23.5, and I’ll be unable to pass him if there’s anyone else in front of him. Next thing I know, if I’m not careful, I’ll be riding right into his draft. It takes a ‘sprint’ in a clear area, but you obviously don’t want to do that all day on a course with a lot of riders.
Ahh, the good old entropy argument.
you know that it takes a little more than a .5 mph delta in speed to make a legal pass right?
Yes, which is why I put forth the argument about how higher speeds compresses the men, making them more clustered for drafting penalties. It’s way harder to go from 24 → 27mph than it is from 20-23 without blowing up.
…there’s no need to go from 24-27 mph to make a legal pass.
You ought to see the women in Kona each year. They are about as bad as the men. Of course the issue is that in some countries, the philosophy on drafting (as well as other things) is that it is only cheating if you get caught.
I know a guy who worked the bike leg issuing penalties for races and he said women are the worst. So, who knows!
…there’s no need to go from 24-27 mph to make a legal pass.
There is if the guy you’re behind is going between 24 and 25.5mph. (In reality, that guy might average 24.5 but fluctuate from 23 to 26.) If you can’t crank up 2-3 mph, I don’t think you’ll make the pass on the guy.
Women kind of face the same predicament as we’re all out on the course together, so there are women having to pass men too.
I can’t say I’ve really had any trouble passing people who are only going slightly slower than me. If we’re really close in speed and I’m already feeling like I can’t go much harder I’ll hold back outside of the draft zone for a minute or two and then make the pass. I agree though, if the pass means going by a pace line of 5+ riders I might have a tough go of it. Fortunately I don’t think I’ve really come across that.