I just dont understand. I have done the Golden State Tri with TBFracing for many years. It has always been drafting legal. Lots of beginnners. Have never been an issue. Lots of curves, etc. so its not like you just sit in a flat straight line for hours and hours. So, where is the data that it is unsafe?
Now, if you put too many of anything on a road, bikes, cars, etc., yes, then it will be crazy. But, this does not say drafting is unsafe. It saves you can make any situation unsafe if you have too many of anything.
I guess this is why I enjoy the smaller races. Dont have this pack issue.
I will not draft with anybody but experienced group riders.
I’d love to do draft legal triathlons, but from what I’ve seen regarding bike handling skills at local tris, it would be a guaranteed recipe for disaster.
Would anyone consider a crit field consisting mostly of riders with poor bike handling skills riding tt bikes safe? Sure, comparing the kind of riding in a crit to a draft legal triathlon is an exaggeration, but I think a point can still be taken from it.
Thats what everyone sees, or thinks. But have you ever done a race thats draft legal with these beginners. Again, I have for years, and never an issue. Very few draft!! Meaning, this was for me the first year I could even hang with a draft pack for a while. With all the turns, etc on the course, the drafting did not last very long anyways. And, no way do I sit inches of the guy in front of me. I dont trust his skills, or mine.
I agree. It’s ALWAYS been the knee-jerk reaction in the hard-core triathlon crowd that it’s unsafe. Or that it’s cheating. Or that it’s unethical or that drafting is something evil. People do it all the time when they are training, but then in racing( whether it’s legal or illegal) it’s all of the above. Strange!
As I said in the other thread, it’s years away, but In a limited form and format, for the more competitive AG’rs I can see them going the same route as cycling possibly - with some form of categorization and the ability to move up after you do so many races or achieve a certain number of results. For the younger crowd, it would be a great feeder system into the ITU programs
I have always been of the opnion that yes, allowing drafting on the bike does change the dynamic of the race significantly, but what it does is now test the FULL range of skills and fitness of what it means to be a cyclist - not just the one demensional ability to put your head down and hammer. That will still be needed to, but you will also need to be able to corner, climb, descend, follow breaks, read other riders, jump and sprint. Wouldn’t it be better to test the full range of a cyclists skill than just one aspect? Wouldn’t that combined with the swim and the run be a true triathlon?
The problem I have with it is that it becomes an imbalanced event. Sharks, Cheetahs and Lunch – meaning you have to swim fast, merely hang on for the bike, and run fast. It takes superior cycling out of the equation and makes everybody who’s in contention to have almost identical skills. Fast swim, fast run.
Fleck, it seems folks have many different types of races, distances, locations, etc. to choose from. WTC offers one type. ITU offers another. Etc. So, as you and many have said, if you dont like a certain type, do a different one! I dont go back to races if they are “poorly” run. I look at many factors for “poorly”. I guess since I am not a WTC race junkie, that says something for me and what I look for in a race! NO WAY would I knowingly do a race that was going to be nothing be packs. What challenge and safe would that be? None, IMO.
Now, I really would like to do “real” tris. Meaning, make the swim mean something. Whether thats longer distance, no wet suits, etc, no idea. But, you never hear this. Folks should just be honest and call what our races at 99%, and thats a Du.
Now, the new ITU double distance sounds great. But, I have heard nothing about it anywhere.
Oh well, life is way too short to do nothing but complain. I love to be around the positive folks who are out trying to be the best we can be, based on the genetics we were given. Sure glad I am not good enough to have the pressure to have to win!
I have no data on the safety issue. I prefer the no drafting rule because I like the race to be an individual effort devoid of tactics involving feeding off the work of others. If there was a sensible way to apply and enforce a no drafting rule in the water I would support that as well but I don’t think it is at all practical so I accept drafting in the water as part of or sport.
I guess this is why I enjoy the smaller races. Dont have this pack issue.
And therein lies the rub: the larger the race, the larger the issues.
Let’s say Clearwater was draft-legal—so instead of, say, a 50-cyclist pack…er, group, what would you have, perhaps a 150-member pack? How safe would that be?
There are races that have figured out how to have 2000 person fields and have drafting be a near non-issue…but to be fair, those are also on courses that are not pancake-flat such as the one raced on the 11th.
If Clearwater is the venue for at least the next four years, the immediate solution is smaller waves spread farther apart.
Would there have been fewer people going to hospital if it had been a draft legal race, and everyone just rides according to the usual drafting etiquette and rules? (no aerobars, just ride a straight line rather than check over your shoulder every 2 minutes for the draft marshal, etc). I think having a drafting situation in a non-drafting race is far more dangerous than just having a draft legal race to begin with.
I am all for draft legal races, but i will avoid them. It negates the chance I have of winning damnnit. I would like to see more draft legal races. Then folks would understand how a group works together. At GS this year, it was the best I have seen. Took me 10 miles to catch the front of my AG when it normally takes 3 or 4.
I am definetly turning to more races that have more climbing in them where drafting cannot be an issue.
Part of the reason folks complain is, they see how triathletes ride. I am sorry, but there are to many folks that can’t even ride in straight line, let alone with someone near them. If I bumped someones handlebars in a tri, they would fall over. Do it in a bike race, you don’t even get noticed.
A local tri tried it this year without any pack related accidents. It was a little sketchy but still fun. The front few packs were varied a bit from what I hear. One was like a smooth fast rolling group and the other had more breaks, jumps and moves. The third group was more like the first, a smoother faster pace line. I don’t think most of the beginners packed it up the way the front guys did, jumped on a person passing here and there but not quite the 8 man paceline.
I’ve done races locally that were “draft legal” due to course constraints, but again we’re talking an event with perhaps 175 racers…and on a course that literally had no other way to race it and no way too marshall it. But in general, making triathlon “draft legal” IMO is not the solution…
I have this odd feeling the people that are new aren’t going to be drafting with people that are riding 20+ mph. Most of the people riding 20+ also aren’t new. I don’t think it would be a problem because the group that is riding slow is going to ride slow whether people are around them or not. I wouldn’t want to do all the races like this but some could be fun.
My only problem is at least with the races around here i’ve never had anyone that i could have stuck onto the back wheel of anyways so most likley i’d be pulling… and that just wouldn’t be too much fun.
most urban-ish locations that I’ve done triathlons at would fit this description exactly – citizen class crit on TT bikes. And if that were the case, I wouldn’t even bother. Consider the addition of waves, and riders rapidly overtaking others, and you’ve got “Carnage Triathlon”.
I just dont understand. I have done the Golden State Tri with TBFracing for many years. It has always been drafting legal. Lots of beginnners. Have never been an issue. Lots of curves, etc. so its not like you just sit in a flat straight line for hours and hours. So, where is the data that it is unsafe?
Dave
Data? I doubt that there’s very much, if any. However, competitor skill level and aerobars are risk factors where drafting is concerned. You’re hearing from the athletes that don’t want to assume that risk.
Well, I’ve seen the beginning bike racers pull moves in the pack that they think they see all the time on the Tour coverage (sweeping the lane in a sprint, jumping on a wheel). Problem is, when they look at the head-on shot on TV, it looks like these guys have only inches between them at that speed. If they were to pay attention to the overhead shot, they’d see this isn’t the case… But in any case, I’ve seen so many beginning racers jump into non-existent spaces and cause major pile-ups. It happens every year. And it happens again any time some newbie jumps in the race with more testosterone than experience.
There’s this arguement that the drafting doesn’t happen because people are too nervous to keep drafting. Well, that nervousness is a hazard as well, leading to the sketchy riding that happens all too often in non-draft legal races as well. So now you have a double problem.
Yes, I see racing categories in tri for draft legal races. Makes sense. But I also see a lot of resistance to making it happen.
Yes, most of the problem is that courses are too crowded. Most of the time it would take a MINIMUM of two lanes open to the race to eliminate the problem. But then you’d be having trouble with the “keep right” rule…