Who’s the FIST guy on this page?
http://hcphoto.smugmug.com/gallery/2961045
How about this one?
the first one: second row, second from the left.
Rider #211, (http://hcphoto.smugmug.com/gallery/2960807/1/160058919/Medium) Michael Kim since I know that we sold him the P2C and did the fit. He’s fiddled with his position a little over the past month or 2 I know.
Rider #211, (http://hcphoto.smugmug.com/gallery/2960807/1/160058919/Medium) Michael Kim since I know that we sold him the P2C and did the fit. He’s fiddled with his position a little over the past month or 2 I know.
really?
I really don’t think a single part of his helmet is below his back…
I have seen road positions more aero than that.
g
Would somebody please tell this guy:
http://hcphoto.smugmug.com/...3/1/160056324/Medium
that the world-at-large STILL miss his posts to the web!!!
He didn’t want the pure aero setup, he wanted comfortable for triathlons. He’s been doing tris for 15+ years and isn’t the most flexible guy we’ve seen either.
He didn’t want the pure aero setup, he wanted comfortable for triathlons. He’s been doing tris for 15+ years and isn’t the most flexible guy we’ve seen either.
My point is I see neither comfort or aero…
he is slammed forward “cause forward is fast” and yet his arms are @ 90s (cause that is fist) and that CREATES the arched back (that I say is uncomfortable)
look here:
with the four lines being ~greater trochanter, acromion process, top of back and top of helmet…
I just have to ask, what “fitting” was done???
g
he is slammed forward “cause forward is fast” and yet his arms are @ 90s (cause that is fist) and that CREATES the arched back (that I say is uncomfortable)
so… serious question: How would you adjust his position?
253
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I’ll pose another question, how do you know what is comfortable for him? And how do you define a fit that is comfortable in general?
We put him in a position where he felt the that he was generating the most power and had a smooth cadence, right around 79 degrees if I remember correctly. He COULD go lower in the front to improve his aerodynamics but he didn’t like the extra weight on his forearms that the lower position created.
As for the arch in his back, I don’t remember what he looked like on the fit bike. He has come in a few times with questions and some other small things. Each time we’ve noticed that he has swapped out the stem or moved something else around slightly.
Which riders have a position that you approve of? Let us take a turn examining the fits that you’ve done.
he is slammed forward “cause forward is fast” and yet his arms are @ 90s (cause that is fist) and that CREATES the arched back (that I say is uncomfortable)
so… serious question: How would you adjust his position?
I would start with these words of wisdom:
from the good doc:
If my goal were to set myself up in an aero position with minimal drag and I didn’t have access to a wind tunnel, I’d just drop the elbow pads far enough down below the saddle that my shoulders (acromion process) were within a couple of inches of being level with my hips (head of greater trochanter), move the elbow pads in to where my arms were as narrow or perhaps narrower than my thighs when viewed from the front, tilt the aero bars up ever-so-slightly, and keep my head down. I’d then go out and ride the bike - hard - in that position and see how far foward (and thus up) I needed to move the saddle to where my thigh-torso angle was similar to the “working position” on my road bike. I’d then ride the TT bike for at least one hour - hard! - each week for at least 6 weeks before any race.
Sounds crude, I know, but for a flat TT this neandrathal approach will probably get you to within about 1 km/h of your maximal speed.
sorry to drag that one out again ac.
g
sorry to drag that one out again ac.
I swear, misspell ONE word in a gazillion posts to the web, and that’s the post that people will keep dredging up again, and again, and again…
EDIT: BTW, note the relationship between Jens’ greater trochanter (which is about at the USPS symbol on his shorts) and his acromion process (which is about at the middle of the seam on his shoulder), as well as his overall thigh-torso angle.
where he felt the that he was generating the most power
he he he… ok
Which riders have a position that you approve of? Let us take a turn examining the fits that you’ve done.
as mentioned above - follow the AC rules and you would do well.
The difference between you and me is I don’t charge people for a fit.
I did the first round last night for a (coaching) client…
yes, he can ride it for a long time (used essentially the same position on his road bike+clipons this past weekend at state TT - 35km - as well). It ain’t fist (not s 90d angle in there), it ain’t UCI (88cm), but it will be fast.
Oh and it didn’t cost him $xxx or whatever it is you charge 
bu then again, maybe that is a business I should pursue based on the above 
see also: boardman, obree, coggan, zabrieskie, jens (pre-fist) etc.
g
I can see that Michael has made a major change since that bike left the shop. The fit and set up was originally done with an Adamo ISM saddle which is no longer on the bike. Without the bike here to measure we could guess at its saddle position, but it does appear that it has been moved all the way forward on its rails. With that and where he is sitting on the saddle combined has moved him in towards the bars.
This guy is a physical trainer and well aware of his flexibility issues and his body overall. His flexibility, or lack of, comfort and the ability to see down the road were key factors is his bike’s set up. I too have to ride in such a position due to my lack of flexibility and no curvature in my neck. Mom must have dropped me a time or two too many on my head as a baby…
I’m also no wind tunnel but using the key things John Cobb taught me to look for, air is passing over his body well. Yes, he is not “dropped” and his head sticks up but you can’t just cram any old person into the positions you’d like to see. Trust me… or just ask my ex’s.
I tend not to spend much time in these forums and usually chose not to comment, as everyone seems to be the worlds expert here already. I prefer to spend more time worrying about my training, my family, my athletes, friends and generally being a good guy.
Cheers!
…in such a position due to lack of flexibility and no curvature in neck…
I suggest he DOES have a flexible back - look at how much it is curved!..
forward positioning in combination with a short cockpit CREATES this situation.
he just need to learn to rotate his hips and get the lower back inline with the upper back (and the upper back lower to the ground!)
just my nickel…
g
I tend not to spend much time in these forums and usually chose not to comment, as everyone seems to be the worlds expert here already. I prefer to spend more time worrying about my training, my family, my athletes, friends and generally being a good guy.
Why is that people often feel the need to try to justify their dropping out of a discussion by claiming that they have “better things to do”??
I did the first round last night for a (coaching) client…
yes, he can ride it for a long time (used essentially the same position on his road bike+clipons this past weekend at state TT - 35km - as well). It ain’t fist (not s 90d angle in there), it ain’t UCI (88cm)
Heh - as I was training this morning (yes, it is possible to train and post to the web, although not usually at the exact same time) I realized that even my position on my road bike fails the forward limit rule!! This, despite the fact that I’m only 6’ 0" (albeit with a longer-than-average torso)…
I had to double check the date on that post. You know someone in 2007 who wears jorts? Wow.
he just need to learn to rotate his hips and get the lower back inline with the upper back (and the upper back lower to the ground!)
And do so, of course, w/o losing too much power due to having his muscles operating at sub-optimal lengths and/or w/o adequate blood flow (the “occlusion hypothesis”).
You’re comparing apples to oranges. The fit that we did for him was for a triathlon fit. I will acknowledge that there is a difference between a tri and TT fits. With a TT you can go for pure aerodynamics and drop him as low as possible to achieve a flat back. With a tri we err on the conservative side since the individual needs to be able to digest food in that position, run afterwards, etc.
As for your comments on where he felt the most powerful, we use a CompuTrainer and watch his cadence. When the person’s cadence picks up and they request that we increase the load that is usually a pretty good indicator that they are generating slightly more power in a different position.
All of the athletes you named were time trialist. I didn’t see one triathlete named. Look at the positions of guys doing IM Hawaii such as Cam Widoff, Normann, Badmann and you’ll see differences in their position versus those focused purely on doing TTs.