**That’s ALOT faster than you and in the top 10% of IM’s,. **
You are so full of shit it isn’t even funny. I’ve been sitting on the sidelines, watching you puff your chest about your “accomplishments” as a “pro” triathlete over the last 3 months…put up or shut up. Those of us who actually did race at a high level back in the 80s don’t hide in anonymity. No, we weren’t all part of the big 4 (much less MP/JR level for that matter), but we aren’t casting stones at “slow” IM racers that we disapprove of now.
You are such a fast swimmer? Really? Post your name & results.
If you are as good as you say you are, post your name & don’t hide in anonymity. Who are you? What are your actual results? Most people don’t know this, back back in the 80s/early 90s all it took to get your pro card was a bit of extra cash & occasionally some semblance of proof that you had a top 10/5/3 finish on your resume, no matter how immaterial the race.
Lots of small dicked 40-somethings going around boasting about “their days as a pro”…are you THAT GUY? No? Then who are you? Lets hear it ex-pro, post your palmares & then talk smack. Until you do so you are just another Walter Mittiesque wanna-be/never-will-be railing against newbies/slowbies/TITbies…nothing but talk.
As an adult who learned to swim specifically for triathlon, TI gave me a lot of fundamental skills. I followed the skill drills religiously and only proceeded after mastering one before taking on the next because they built on each other. It worked for me. I’ve gone as fast as 57:18 for 2.4mi.
Those who learned as a kid to swim on a team should consider themselves lucky. Nothing like gasping for air doing intervals when the guy next to you is just doing an easy swim and you can barely keep up with him.
TI works, but keep your mind open to new technique advice. It’s not for everyone, and some don’t want to hear it mentioned. Nobody is going to stop you in the middle of a race to chastise you for your choice of technique.
I hashed all this out on another thread,“TI Debate”. But will explain quickly again. IMO there are two main ways to freestyle,“catch and pull"or Total Immersion. On a another website they were calling"catch and pull"the"swinger” style of swimming(everyone thought that was hysterical,including me). So I started called Total Immersion,“turnthrustglide”. In the"swinger technique"you basically swing your arms as fast as possible and therefore it is the"fast"way to swim(many triathletes do this style). It does work but you tend to do a lot of strokes and in my opinion is not efficient. On the other hand"turnthrustglide"is easier,more relaxed,more fun,do less strokes and CAN be fast IF you practice. All you have to do to do"turnthrustglide"is TURN your shoulders(up to 90degrees),THRUST your arm forward and GLIDE(your glide is your follow through). The harder and smoother you do"turnthrustglide"the faster you go. My advice is to TRY both styles and do the one that works best!
As an adult who learned to swim specifically for triathlon, TI gave me a lot of fundamental skills. I followed the skill drills religiously and only proceeded after mastering one before taking on the next because they built on each other. It worked for me. I’ve gone as fast as 57:18 for 2.4mi.
Those who learned as a kid to swim on a team should consider themselves lucky. Nothing like gasping for air doing intervals when the guy next to you is just doing an easy swim and you can barely keep up with him.
TI works, but keep your mind open to new technique advice. It’s not for everyone, and some don’t want to hear it mentioned. Nobody is going to stop you in the middle of a race to chastise you for your choice of technique.
+2. It seems to me that people are talking past each other a bit on this issue. You’ve got some elite/pro level people saying that TI doesn’t work and won’t make you fast. I can accept that a pro wouldn’t want to train using TI. Don’t know for sure - because I’m not a pro and never will be - but I can accept that and think it makes sense.
However, for me - someone with no swimming background whatsoever and who has only 6-8 hours a week to train - TI has worked wonders. It’s helped my feel very comfortable in the water and, in a little over a year, taken me from no swimming ability at all to the point where I can do a low heart rate Olympic distance swim in around 28-29 minutes.
Now, I’m doing this for fun, and not to win any awards. But I will say that as an age group athlete, you can be very competitive at the Olympic distance with a 28-29 minute swim if you have a strong the bike and run. TI works for me as a training approach (because I do my relax, low heart rate swims on my rest days, allowing me to save my Zone 5 training efforts for the bike and run) and it works on race day because it makes the swim doable and I exit the water feeling fresh as a daisy, ready to have a strong bike and run.
Largely as a result of advice on this board I incorporate faster sets above OW race pace into my training, basically just upping my stroke rate, not gliding quite so much, but trying not to flail about/keep good form.
This has helped alot. I think of it as ‘threshold TI’.
Now, I am by no means a fast swimmer by ST standards. But, with my glidy TI stroke, I was 8th out of +/- 400 swimmers at Rieslingman this june. Bear in mind I’m a fat opera singer with a drink problem. Time was around 1’25"/100m OW, 1km swim.
I’m doing Bilzen 111 this weekend and am curious to see how I stack up against the Belgians.
Dunno, but the wife is getting me one for my birthday.
I would describe my stroke rate as ‘laughably slow’.
It was improved this afternoon by trying (and failing) to keep up with the 8-year olds in the next lane.
Honestly, how frustrating is that? Get your head down to try to swim as fast as a little kid & swim right up the rear of some random belgian woman doing leisurely breaststroke in the ‘fast’ lane. Dunno who was the more shocked.
TI is a good place to start for new swimmers. If you’re already fairly comfortable in the water then I’d look at something that teaches a more competitive style of swimming. I’ve found TI is good for building the foundations but can lack a bit when it comes to swimming fast.
Just wonder how fast can you get with Total Immersion techniques. I see a lot of YouTube videos of slow motion and it looks super relaxed, but how fast can you do say an OLY 30min? 25min?
I was given the video and wonder if I should just jump into this for the next 9 months or not.
I’m a 36min/0.9mi, so just about anything will help. I’d like to find something and just stick with it, but if this is not for speed then I’m going to look for other info.
Thanks
i find swimsmooth.com to be very useful as a website. Infact i have a video ‘lesson’ booked this friday with paul newsome. Im a 1:55/100m pace swimmer over 1km and above trials, so he has his work cut out for him!
I would kill for a better swim like yourself. They say you cant win a tri on the swim, but you can def lose it. Playing catch up on the bike and run only gets you so far.
Just wonder how fast can you get with Total Immersion techniques. I see a lot of YouTube videos of slow motion and it looks super relaxed, but how fast can you do say an OLY 30min? 25min?
I was given the video and wonder if I should just jump into this for the next 9 months or not.
I’m a 36min/0.9mi, so just about anything will help. I’d like to find something and just stick with it, but if this is not for speed then I’m going to look for other info.
+1
Thanks
I had a 42 min swim in my first oly (.9mi) in May. My last most recent oly was last week and I did 30 mins flat (.9mi). Try interval training in the pool. 10x200y with 60 second rests, as fast as you can. Do this for two months, I bet you will improve a lot. Leading up to the tri, do open water swimming once a week to get used to open water and sighting. Thats what I found worked for me. My goal next year is to get closer to 26min swim.
Yes, we’re all very well aware of your swimming prowess from your multiple posts and your list of accomplishments on your sig line. Mom and I are very proud of you son.
I think TI is useful. I went from feeling like I was having a heart attack swimming to a 1:05 IM swim time doing TI 2x30 min a week in winter, off in fall and 3 open water swims per week in the summer. I was a serious spaz in the water b4 TI…and i actually like swimming now
35-40min on olympics. i actually use a tempo trainer set at 1.2 during oly or HIM and find it very helpful. this is my second year using TI. love it. will have a good six months of practicing in a 50m pool before my next tri in may 2013 so i hope my time to drop a little.
I just finished reading Sheila Taormina’s “Swim Speed Secrets” and I’m pretty impressed. Although I think Total Immersion has done a good job of making me feel comfortable in the water and teaching me the basics of swimming form, there’s a lot it leaves out. Here are the big ones in my mind:
They don’t place any emphasis at all on the underwater pull, which is the main focus of Sheila’s book. Sheila aruges that the underwater pull is the most important part of swimming fast. A strong and proper underwater pull must be developed over time. This makes a ton of sense to me.
She argues that TI’s total focus on streamlining and postion is overkill. This too makes sense to me - especially since we’re all wearing wetsuits when we race. The wetsuits keep you in good position on top of the water - so why not focus more on the pull instead of devoting 100 percent of your time and effort to position in the water.
She argues that TI’s focus on reaching forward as far as possible, a long, slow stroke and the “glide” leads to slower swimming. Makes sense. I’ve found that I tend to lose momentum during the glide and think I may be better served with a higher stroke count - which, according to Shelia, is easier to acomplish with a high elbow pull. TI’s response is that this will lead to high heart rate swimming, which will kill you on the bike and run.
But I’m not buying that. I waste a ton of energy trying to reach as far as possible during my glide. I think a higher cadence with a stronger pull wouldn’t necessarily require more energy or kill me on the bike and run.
It will be fun and interesting to put her ideas into practice over the next several months. There’s a ton of great material in her book - which will need to be read and re-read several times. But I have a ton of respect for her and think she’s done a great job explaining how to truly improve your time after you’ve gotten down the swimming A,B,Cs.
