Which of these trainers have the most realistic feel?

Triathlon Forum
1

I’m in the market for a new trainer and I have read a lot of reviews as well as searching here for info. The reviews look at all the features of the unit, build quality, stability, ability to record power etc (which they should) and often don’t really spend too much time providing detail about how realistic the ride feel is, especially how it stacks up against it’s competition, so I was hoping I could pick your brains and get some real world info.

I’ve currently got a Force Fluid Trainer and it doesn’t produce a very life like feel with a very quick coast down. I find it hard to spend much time on the trainer at the best of times, so getting a trainer that has a life like feel is important to me to make it as enjoyable as possible. With a young daughter I need to make the most of my time and I think I’ll be spending more time on the trainer in the future, including some of my longer rides, so I’m looking at my options to upgrade. I also don’t have the spare $$ to throw away so want to make sure I make the right choice.

Ideally I would get a Wahoo Kickr, but I just can’t justify the price. Also, I have a Quarq so the power aspect isn’t that important.

I was initially looking at the Kurt Kinetic Road Machine with the Pro flywheel (increasing the flywheel weight to 12 lbs). Generally reviews say that the Road Machine provides a life like ride (even without the pro flywheel), but then I read the DC Rainmaker review and he said it felt just like any other trainer which has put some doubt into my mind as he seems to know his stuff. Those with the pro flywheel upgrade, does this make a big difference to the standard 6 lbs flywheels?

The other options would be to spend a bit more and look at something like the Elite Turbo Muin or Cycleops The Silencer. From what I’ve read, the Lemond will be a bit loud for me (and my wife!), or is it not that bad, as I can get that the cheapest of all the direct mount options?

Would the Road Machine with pro flywheel give a similar ride to the direct mount trainers (which I think I’ve read also have 6 lbs flywheels), or to get a life like ride do I need to spend more and go with a direct drive trainer? In terms of price in USD (I’m in New Zealand) there is quite a jump from the Kurt Kintetic incl. pro flywheel at $550 to the Lemond at about $685, Elite Turbo Muin $770, Cycleops The Silencer $950 and Wahoo Kickr $1,450 hence my question and hopefully hearing some comparisons from people who have used all/some of these trainers.

Basically, what is the most life like trainer out there (regardless of what other features it has - and not including rollers)? Thanks!

2

I personally have owned 3 trainers…Cycleops, KK and a CT. All have diff power curves but ultimately when I am pushing a certain watts they all “feel” the same to me. I think your searching possibly for something that doesn’t exist. You have a power meter so the most important factor is ignoring speed indoors and just focus on the workout. My recommendation is the KK (standard) with a trainer road subscription - using your Quarq. You have everything you need.

3

I also wonder what you are looking for with a road like feel. Doesn’t it all end up being the same when you’re pushing watts? Road like feel probably means the ability to coast, the bike will slow down only gradually, but why would you want to coast on the trainer? Coasting = not pushing = not training.

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Since you have a powermeter, and road feel is what’s impotant to you, why not go with a set of rollers with resistance? You won’t get much more realistic than that.

5

Thus far I’ve had a fluid 2 and a road machine (technically rock n’ roll) with both the standard flywheel and the pro flywheel. I’m a bit of a grinder (85rpm is my normal cadence) and I can feel the difference between the fluid 2 and the road machine. IMO, the road machine does feel better especially with the pro flywheel. On the fluid 2 I felt constant acceleration/deceleration in my pedal stroke… almost like the tire was slipping in the back (it wasn’t). Also, the road machine is pretty much bomb-proof and quiet to boot.

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I also wonder what you are looking for with a road like feel. Doesn’t it all end up being the same when you’re pushing watts? Road like feel probably means the ability to coast, the bike will slow down only gradually, but why would you want to coast on the trainer? Coasting = not pushing = not training.

You don’t really want to coast on a trainer, but coasting tells you about deceleration (and also about acceleration) which tells you about the trainer’s inertia, which is a big part of what makes a trainer feel “realistic.” Most trainers, even high quality ones, aren’t able to reproduce the acceleration and deceleration of riding outside even if they can reproduce the total average load. That is, some can generate 300 watts of total load at the “right” wheel speed (the wheel speed if you were riding on the flat, or close to it) but even if they can hit that target they fail at matching the inertial changes – so they can, at most, feel realistic for one set of conditions (typically, flat road or close to it).

You can see this if you look at a couple of pedal force - pedal speed plots (or the equivalent crank torque - cadence plots). Ride on a flat road at, say, 250 watts for a few minutes using whatever gearing you choose, maybe with a couple of surges, then find a steepish hill that’s long enough so that you can ride up it at the same 250 watts for about the same length of time, using whatever gearing you choose, maybe with a couple of surges. Compare the PF/PV. They’ll look different. That is, same power, but different patterns of pedal force and pedal speed. (BTW, if you want to see why elevating the front of your trainer to simulate hill climbing is bogus, stick a dictionary under your front wheel to raise it higher, then ride at 250 watts for a few minutes. Does the PF/PV look more like the hill climb at 250 watts or the flat ride at 250 watts?).

So, what does a huge flywheel do? It tends to make the inertia closer to what we experience on the road (though typically only for flat roads or close to it). Thus far, I’ve never run across a trainer that has realistic feel but some have less unrealistic feel than others. Those tend to be the ones with big flywheels.

7

Hard to beat the Emotion rollers with remote to control resistance. If you have powermeter then you get road feel on these with flexibility to go as hard as you want. No special trainer tire needed. I had previous version of the Emotion rollers and now using the set with the remote control resistance. Great product.

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I haven’t had the chance to use e-motions but I would think they could mimic a fair amount of the proper inertia because you’re accelerating and decelerating your body mass on the rollers. That’s a good thing. The wheel speed - power demand may be off but, in general, that’s less important to “feel” than the inertia, so I suspect the E-motions could be pretty good. I’ll have to try them sometime.

9

None.

Trainers are not designed to be realistic and there to provide you convenience. You make the most out of it.

Ride outside if you want realistic.You already have a trainer and the next one will feel like a trainer.

10

The most “life-like” trainer I’ve ever used was the Cycleops Wind Trainer by a huge margin.

The Kurt Kinetic is a better trainer overall though, feeling like the road couldn’t matter less to me really.

11

Give a Velotron a try. I love it.

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I like my Jet Black. Power, cadence, heart rate, quiet, easy on and off. Basically only the time it takes to take out the quick release and put a different one in. Doesn’t shave the back tire too bad. Around $450 so cheaper than the others you had mentioned. While it’s manual resistance change, you can go through your gears and feel different resistance, thus feels real. It’s not as fancy as a CT, but not sure what more you’d want in a trainer except maybe project motivational pictures.

13

LeMond has closest inertia curve to “real world”, followed by Wahoo. KK with add-on mass is a distant third, with others stacking up behind that. Not a subjective analysis, I’ve seen the actual numbers (Full disclosure, formerly employed by LeMond.)
We can leave things like the Velotron out because you mentioned budget (waterboy has a reading comprehension issue, as per usual)
Generally speaking, wind resistance tends to provide the closest analog to (again…) “real world”, although electronic solutions can and do simulate that very well with good software work. Electronic trainers that do a good job with load simulation tend to be designed with pretty low inertia, and there are some patent issues with electronic inertia simulation. Fluid trainers can be ok in terms of resistance simulation, but resistance curve with fluid can be pretty heat variable depending on thermal management engineering (KK does a very good job with this, many others not so much.)
LeMond is still the closest thing feel-wise to getting on a bike outside, but it’s still the loudest trainer out there.
Wahoo is probably the best all-around trainer on the market, but you really do need to be a person that enjoys dicking around with your I-phone to like it. I know of several folks who got one at my recommendation and wound up selling it/taking it back when they couldn’t just pull it out of the box and use it.
KK is still the best “traditional” style trainer, but I literally haven’t been able to make myself use mine since I started using the LeMond, even though I live in an apartment and noise is an issue (which, while I’m on the topic, it’s worth mentioning that the LeMond actually transmits less noise in use to the apartment downstairs than the KK because the frequency of the wind noise is higher than the “rumble” of the trainer & doesn’t transmit through the floors… and yes, I checked this with a DB meter. :slight_smile: )

E-motion is pretty much the category killer if you’re looking for rollers and don’t plan on bringing them out to races for warm ups.

M

14

Out of all the indoor training devices I’ve tried, the only two that had realistic road feel used wind resistance and were, as a result, very loud. Those two were the Cateye Cyclosimulator, which I believe no longer exists, and the Kreitler Rollers with wind resistance unit. I’ve had a Cyclops Fluid Trainer and currently use the Kurt Kinetic w/ heavyweight flywheel. Neither of these stack up to the two with wind resistance though. You’ll be disappointed with the KK if that is your priority.

15

You are making a big assumption that one has to buy something new. All this stuff used is MUCH less than new.

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Reassess what you want out of a trainer. My feeling is that you want one that will give you a training effect and keep you motivated. “Road feel” is secondary. I’ve owned rollers, Fluid Trainers and now use a Computrainer. The Computrainer keeps me more engaged with its courses so I find I can ride it longer. It, in fact, is harder than riding outside. And, for me, for training, that’s just fine. Knowing that I will be faster on a course than I was on the Computrainer course is great.

18

Yeah, that makes sense. Because in the fantasy world you live in, the used price on a $6500 (base model!) trainer is going to be in reach for a guy who’s sweating the price of a Kickr.

http://youtu.be/wlMwc1c0HRQ

19

Let’s just say I got one at a price that would make you sick. :o)

Just have to be looking.

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20

Great. Sell it Manamana and get yourself another cheap replacement since they’re so abundant on the water planet.

21

Nah, I have 2, just about had 3. I am always looking for a good deal.

Just like my treadmill, etc. Deals are out there to find.

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