Just a side Note. I tend to slide just a little further forward on the saddle. That may round my back just a touch more, but not much.
Yes I can generate about 300w in this position at altitude. Any feed back is great.
Thanks
Seth Wilkie
here is oceanside last year:
http://www.asiorders.com/…=2380&LNSEARCH=1
Seth:
Is either of these more comfortable to wear? Is one more ventilated than the other? Do you often ride “head down - helmet tail-up”? Your position looks identical for both in these pictures. I attended the “Tunnel Testing” seminar with Steve Hed during TriFest a few weeks ago, kind of like staying at a Holiday Inn Express :). There may be some others on here that did so as well, so hopefully they’ll correct me if I’m wrong. But Steve made a couple of points regarding aero helmets:
-if you can’t hide your head, meaning getting it as low or lower than your shoulders, it’s important that the aero helmet rests on the back. (it looks like your doing a good job of this) If you can hide your head, a standard helmet may be just as effective.
-long and slender aero helmets have less effect when stuck up in the air as in when a rider is looking down. (this may favor the Spuik a little)
Given this, the more comfortable and/or cooler helmet may be the best option, but there is probably not a significant difference otherwise.
Brad
Brad,
Just got the Spuik from a friend yesterday so I have not had a chance to get it out on the road yet. I do drop my head some, but not much. I was considering doing it more often after watching Levi and Dave Z at the ToC TT. They were doing it almost the whole time only lifting it every few seconds to get a sighting and watch for crap on the road or curves. Both helmets have similar ventilation, two small slits in the front. The spuik’s only exhaust vent is at the tail, where the Louie has a few more small slits on the back. The spuik takes just a little more care to get past my ears when putting it on though, but they both feel fine once they are on.
Did they say anything about looking left or right with the helmets tails affecting performance and which may be better in that sort of a situation?
Seth
Look at the helmet review on http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/features/aero_helmet.shtml it seems to ‘conclude’ the spiuk is better in almost any scenario however I’d guess there to be relatively little difference between the best and worst! So just go with what feels best on your melon.
Does anyone have any tunnel data for the spuik vs the louie and rider shape/position? I remember a thread a while back about different helmets and shape done by the guys at MIT, but I don’t think that they tested the Spuik.
Seth
it might be a bit off-topic and i hope you don’t take it as an offense, but: you’re riding a super extreme position, even for my taste, doing high altitude training and you are a 5:44 70.3 finisher? i mean, beside the fact that H.A.T. might seem like a little waste of money given your present state of fitness, i think your hip angle is way too acute. what splits can you run off the bike?
once again, this is not intended to be offensive. i’m just curious.
EDIT: ok, checked it since it seemed so odd, you’re actually ~ 4:30, pretty good. but i still think you’re too low in your current position
We did test the Spuik. It tested pretty well, but that’s on a specific dummy model that we used. Different helmets test differently on different people: the helmet that tested the worst on the dummy tested the best when we put it on a real rider.
No offense taken but the data In the photo is due to wave starts. If I actually did do a 5:45 I would agree with you. I have raised my position in the past but I didn’t run any faster. At Oceanside '08 I rolled a ~2:25 @ 285w and ran a ~1:30 half marathon. My swim was a ~35 for a total time of 4:36 with transitions.
Seth Wilkie
Brad,
Just got the Spuik from a friend yesterday so I have not had a chance to get it out on the road yet. I do drop my head some, but not much. I was considering doing it more often after watching Levi and Dave Z at the ToC TT. They were doing it almost the whole time only lifting it every few seconds to get a sighting and watch for crap on the road or curves. Both helmets have similar ventilation, two small slits in the front. The spuik’s only exhaust vent is at the tail, where the Louie has a few more small slits on the back. The spuik takes just a little more care to get past my ears when putting it on though, but they both feel fine once they are on.
Did they say anything about looking left or right with the helmets tails affecting performance and which may be better in that sort of a situation?
Seth
No, but the time during a race that you might be looking right or left is (or should be) such miniscule amount of time and probably at low speed (as in cornering) that I just don’t think that would make any difference. I’m just sayin’… 
Brad
Well here is the first round of field testing data: Runs 1 & 2
Identical conditions separated by ~15minutes to ride home and switch helmets. 7mph tailwind on the way out, 7mph headwind on the way back.
10.64miles
The louie in the past felt like it was catching alot of air and slowing me down and it was definately cooler as a consequence. The spuik felt faster the whole time, but maybe that was just some fatigue creeping in even though I was just going solid tempo. I was really surprised by the results and I plan on doing a few more runs just to confim my findings. Some of my training partners also wanted me to check their giro as well. We’ll see if I can squeeze that one in as well.
Spuik: Run 1
Time:25:31
Power: 239np, 236ave
Heartrate: 151ave
Speed: 25.1
Louie: Run 2
Time: 25:13
Power: 237np, 234ave
Heartrate: 148ave
Speed: 25.3
Thanks Brad,
I just wasn’t sure if they discussed how time in those positions might affect drag over the course of a twisty oly or 1/2 IM
Seth
.
Do a search for the race results and you will see his time was a 4:36 . The finish line clock starts when the first wave goes off…Clearly his wave was no where near the first to go off. This is the reason I never get any of my finish photos for races that do this.
it might be a bit off-topic and i hope you don’t take it as an offense, but: you’re riding a super extreme position, even for my taste, doing high altitude training and you are a 5:44 70.3 finisher? i mean, beside the fact that H.A.T. might seem like a little waste of money given your present state of fitness, i think your hip angle is way too acute. what splits can you run off the bike?
once again, this is not intended to be offensive. i’m just curious.
EDIT: ok, checked it since it seemed so odd, you’re actually ~ 4:30, pretty good. but i still think you’re too low in your current position
He ran a 1:30:45 off of a 2:25:22 bike. Seems fine to me.
I know Dan and others go on about tight hip angles affecting the run. I haven’t seen it for me, and there are lot of other people who it doesn’t affect. The OP seems to be one of them.
Rik
I agree with you. I hate it that the clock says that, but I would have hated to do a mass start in that small harbor… Ouch 
Seth
Based on the similarity of your head position and back shape to my own (as well as that of a couple of other people for whom I’ve seen data), I vote for the Rocket. None of the other helmets that I have tested - i.e., Troxel Radius II, LG Prologue, Bell Meteor II, Giro Advantage 2, and Spiuk Kronos - have proven to be faster, and in fact all but the Bell were slightly but significantly worse.
I’m just curious what kind of open HM time you typically run, or think you could have run that day?
Andy,
Thanks for the input. When you say significantly worse… what do you mean? My guess is that the Rocket is about 40-60 sec faster over a 40k, but I don’t have any data to support that yet. I feel like I need to do a few more runs before I’m conviinced. Do you have any tunnel data compairing them on yourself or even JVB? His position is similar as well.
Seth Wilkie
I am relatively new to longer races and this was my first half, and this is only my third year of Tris. I usually do sprints, olys and road racing (Cat 2) and I played college soccer so I have always been able to run reasonably well. I think that I am more than capable of a 4:10-4:20 if all things came together. I figure swim 30, bike 2:07-2:15, run 1:23-1:30 on a calmer flatter course like Florida, Stealhead, or the WC. That’ll have to wait at least another year till I get further through Physical Therapy School. They say next year there is a lot more time in the schedule. I only Plan on racing 3-4 times this year.
Seth
My guess is that the Rocket is about 40-60 sec faster over a 40k, but I don’t have any data to support that yet. I feel like I need to do a few more runs before I’m conviinced.
Yeah, I’m not quite convinced either. You had a fair amount of wind, which makes controlled testing pretty hard. If nailing down the difference is important to you, we can probably give you some pointers on how to improve the testing – but if, after all that testing, it turned out that instead of 1 sec/km faster the LG was only 0.5 sec/km faster, I wouldn’t be shocked.
I’m definately interested in doing better testing. I’m planning on doing a few more runs Saturday morning before the winds kick up and traffic picks up.
Thanks,
Seth