I am no expert on dinosaurs but didn’t some of them eat other animals eggs?
I thought about that, in fact gila monsters eat eggs of birds and other reptiles regularly.
I would still argue that it is only slightly more “natural” for a human to eat chicken eggs than drink cows milk.
I just don’t believe in basing my diet on breast milk from cows. It is unnatural
I agree with you on this point but how is eating eggs any more “natural”?
When in the course of human evolution did it become normal to eat eggs of another species? I think only in the last couple thousand years.
Thats why I am only going to eat animals that I can outrun. I read the ‘man was born to run’ article yesterday, no breakfast today, turtle soup for lunch, beef for dinner. Maybe tomorrow morning I’ll be able to catch a few chicken’s Rocky style and then have some eggs. Technically I guess anyone can outrun an egg.
I’m well aware of the studies, believe in them, and use that practice.
I also noticed that the OP is trying to injest proteins immediately after exercise not just carbohydrate as the article suggests. Maybe since he spoke of proteins I was thinking he was talking about rebuilding tissues and not glycogen synthesis.
I can’t believe that if someone can’t eat real food 10 minutes after a workout, waiting another 30 or 40 minutes is going to completely compromise their recovery. Yes, their glycogen stores will be reduced like you pointed out but I must have read his reasoning for his intake and recovery differently than you did.
jaretj
JaretJ,
Completely agree…waiting another 30-40 minutes is not going to *completely *compromise recovery. With that, if we’re going to say what is *optimal, *the research would support that the sooner you get these nutrients into your system, AND couple them w/ a protein, the better.
You wouldn’t happen to be able to point me to an article or site that discusses protein intake after exercise would you?
I’m interesting in reading more about it.
jaretj
I can do some more digging and don’t know how in-depth/analytic you want to go, but this is a very thorough analysis:
Effects of recovery beverage on glycogen restoration and endurance exercise performance
You may find this interesting and if nothing else exhaustive.
We also have a few summarized copies of (3) other studies posted on our site:
Endurox R4 Research Studies
I am no expert on dinosaurs but didn’t some of them eat other animals eggs?
I thought about that, in fact gila monsters eat eggs of birds and other reptiles regularly.
I would still argue that it is only slightly more “natural” for a human to eat chicken eggs than drink cows milk.
Lisa: Oats are what a champion thoroughbred eats before he or she wins the Kentucky Derby.
Homer: Newsflash, Lisa. Bart is not a horse!
allright, I will settle with that 
what do you use for your protein source then?
As far as recovery goes this is what I usually do…
Immediately after working out take ~20g of simple carbs preferably with lots of vitamin C and antioxidants
30-40 mins later take your protein
I have also read that if you use fruit juices for your simple carb you want to refrain from a highly acidic juice. I am not sure how this affects the vitamin C content though.
And even if you are more strict you want your fruit juice to be flash pasteurized in a glass bottle
I have come to this conclusion after reading numerous articles over the years and from personal experience and from my friends who I have told to do this as well. Although, I will note that I used this formula for non-cycling exercise so I am not sure if the lengthy nature of cycling would require a different formula.
allright, I will settle with that
what do you use for your protein source then?
I was just arguing to point out what I saw as a fault in logic, and I guess, for the sake of arguing. I really do agree that consuming dairy is strangely unnatural - though I do it regularly.
I try to follow the “all things in moderation” rule for eating. So for protein I will eat dairy, eggs, meat, whey powder, and soy products (I was a vegetarian for some time and developed a taste for tofu, tempeh, and various other vegetarian “fake meat”). In fact I try to get protein from each of these in a day at least once. I have been consuming whey post-workout but only because I’ve read it to be effective then. I’m not sure if it has actually improved my performance and recovery (aside from the placebo effect of having a giant tub of whey powder sitting on top of my fridge).
Since we are on the topic of “natural” and “unnatural” foods - I’ve been thinking a lot lately about picking up the Joe Friel’s book on the Paleo Diet. It seems to make a lot of sense to model a diet after what we were evolved to eat.
I just don’t believe in basing my diet on breast milk from cows. It is unnatural
I agree with you on this point but how is eating eggs any more “natural”?
When in the course of human evolution did it become normal to eat eggs of another species? I think only in the last couple thousand years.
actually if you think about it a LOT of species do eat eggs of other species in nature, however the same is not true when talking about milk.
If you want to really be looking for ‘what’s natural for humans to do’ I think eggs are a lot more understandable than milk products… on the other hand at some points we evolved the bacteria that enable us to digest milk (although even now it’s not nearly 100% widespread, cue all the people with lactose intolerance) so for the current ‘modern’ homo sapiens probably drinking milk could be considered ‘natural’
Dairy is considered “unnatural” because no other mammals consume theirs or another species mothers milk into adulthood? Think for a minute how impractical that would be in the wild? Species have one goal and that is to survive. How long do you think a rabbit that has 3 litters of 8 each would survive if it had to depend on its mother(s) for their milk? Even those mammals on the top of the food chain? If a female lion had to produce milk for countless litters…it would not survive. Other mammals reject milk not due to lack of nutritional value, but because of practicality. As humans, we sit on top of the evolutionary scale which provides us with the ability to enjoy this calcium & protein rich substance.
You can argue about hormone injections and antibiotics given to cows and how it can effect humans, but to say that organic milk is not a valuable food source because it is somehow not natural is very misleading. Those athletes, especially women, would be hard pressed to digest enough calcium if they have eliminated dairy from their diets.
This discussion about milk pops up here every few months. I’m making no statement about the healthfulness or appropriateness of drinking cows milk, but I think there’s a major reason other animals don’t drink the milk of other animlas - they generally can’t. I’ve seen films of other animals in the wild drinking the mother’s milk of another species - e.g. wolves taking down a lactating deer or elk - they’ll drink it if they can.
In response to the OP:
Try Jarrow Formula’s Whey Protein. It’s available from Whole Foods for $21.95 where I live for a 2 lb. can. ~40 servings. www.jarrow.com
It mixes easily with water…but I like it best as a post-workout smoothie with 2 bananas and a cup of frozen fruit.
It is Organic and tested for anti-biotics, contains no additives, no coloring, no HFCS, etc. Just whey protein. You can get it vanilla flavored too.
As a 75% vegan and non-cheese eater and no milk drinker, I use it to help get the BCAA’s post-exercise (yes I know it is a contradiction to say I don’t drink milk and then use whey protein, but I don’t seem to have any lactose allergy reactions to the whey protein on 1-2 scoops per day). I eat 75% vegan because I think it is best to eat as much plants and fruits as you can (and feel healthiest when I do), but still have to balance in calorie needs for my hobbies. I have tried eating 100% vegan and really struggled to get 3-3500 cal’s a day without eating all the time and passing massive amounts of fiber…or relying on too much nuts and avocado’s…or too many grains for my digestion. Your results may vary.
Eggs, natural or not, still have a lot of fat in them. I prefer nuts and flax to get my fat…but still have eggs once or twice a week for breakfast.
And speaking of natural…since when is it natural to participate in Tri’s? We do this as we have evolved to want to do it and it is an option in our lives given our free time. EVERYTHING we do in our lives is to some extent un-natural…it’s up to each of us to find the mix of intakes and environmental factors which most enhance our lives (including sport) and least detract from the survival of the place we call home…
And speaking of natural…since when is it natural to participate in Tri’s? We do this as we have evolved to want to do it and it is an option in our lives given our free time. EVERYTHING we do in our lives is to some extent un-natural…it’s up to each of us to find the mix of intakes and environmental factors which most enhance our lives (including sport) and least detract from the survival of the place we call home…
Somehow my text didn’t show up let me try to remember what I said…
You are exactly right, you do not need to eat all natural products to be in triathlons. I was also trying to make the point that the long term health risks associated with dairy products outweigh the short term benefits. That is just my opinion though.
You can argue about hormone injections and antibiotics given to cows and how it can effect humans, but to say that organic milk is not a valuable food source because it is somehow not natural is very misleading. Those athletes, especially women, would be hard pressed to digest enough calcium if they have eliminated dairy from their diets.
I will say organic milk is not a valuable food source. Though I stick to probably a 75% organic diet just because something is organic doesn’t make it good for you. Also for the people who say everything in moderation is ok (including my parents) - something bad for you in moderation isn’t good for you either!
If you research milk deeper than the ads created by the milk industry which have mostly been retracted now because they have been proven false you will see that the protein contained within milk leeches calcium out of the bones and the cow calcium is not able to be absorbed. So not only are you not getting calcium but you are removing calcium from your bones. Howcome countries where people have only 100mg of calcium a day have no osteoporosis while countries with high dairy/calcium intake have osteoporosis.
If women want calcium they should drink mineral water and vegetables.
As an example: my sister is lactose intolerant and never had milk or cheese and has always had perfect teeth. As a child i drank milk like it was going out of style and had terrible teeth my whole life. Once I gave up milk about 2 years ago my teeth have finally began improving
I supplement with whey and creatine and have never had a problem…what works for one body may not work for another…doesn’t mean anything except that your body can’t handle it.
You can argue about hormone injections and antibiotics given to cows and how it can effect humans, but to say that organic milk is not a valuable food source because it is somehow not natural is very misleading. Those athletes, especially women, would be hard pressed to digest enough calcium if they have eliminated dairy from their diets.
I will say organic milk is not a valuable food source. Though I stick to probably a 75% organic diet just because something is organic doesn’t make it good for you. Also for the people who say everything in moderation is ok (including my parents) - something bad for you in moderation isn’t good for you either!
If you research milk deeper than the ads created by the milk industry which have mostly been retracted now because they have been proven false you will see that the protein contained within milk leeches calcium out of the bones and the cow calcium is not able to be absorbed. So not only are you not getting calcium but you are removing calcium from your bones. Howcome countries where people have only 100mg of calcium a day have no osteoporosis while countries with high dairy/calcium intake have osteoporosis.
If women want calcium they should drink mineral water and vegetables.
As an example: my sister is lactose intolerant and never had milk or cheese and has always had perfect teeth. As a child i drank milk like it was going out of style and had terrible teeth my whole life. Once I gave up milk about 2 years ago my teeth have finally began improving
Although I find personal examples interesting, they are far from “proof”. Please direct me to the university studies that show cow’s milk not only unable to be absorbed but also removes calcium from your bones.
Also, milk is contains a lot of lactose (that is why I prefer non-fat cottage cheese) As a result, you should have brushed your teeth after drinking milk. Just ask your pediatrician, never let your baby go to bed with a bottle of milk because it can ruin their teeth. Nothing to do with calcium.
I saw the suggestion for using eggs. I concur, you can not get egg whites in liquid form - pastuerized. It has worked great in my smoothies without the mess of dealing with real eggs!
Scott
You are correct about the Creatine not being an issue with some. I am sitting here with a pulled calf muscle due to the cramping that I experienced. It seems from my research that it takes a few weeks to flush your system of a long dose of Creatine. So I am drinking a ton of water trying to get this stuff out of me so I can get over my calf injury and get back to normal.
Lets hope soon, I have a marathon in Tokyo Japan in six weeks.
What brand was it?