“Has there ever been a more revealing moment this year? Let me just put this in fairly simple terms: Al Jazeera now broadcasts the words of Senator Durbin to the Mideast, certainly putting our troops in greater danger. No more needs to be said about the motives of liberals.”
from karl rove. now can someone explain to me how is comments are any different than howard dean’s? he just accused liberals of being terrorist sympathizers and wishing harm on the troops. anyone want to help me out here?
I’m still waiting for all the outrage about *Durbin’s *comments.
Its simple that the motives of Liberals is to undermine our President and the war effort. And its easy to understand why Al Jazeera is broadcasting his statements on Middle East radio. Duh! Of course this will put stress on our Military efforts overseas. However I dont this that the statement from Rove that you posted makes those allegations “terrorist sympathizers and wishing harm on the troop”. Maybe he should think about what he is saying before he opens up his pie-hole!
Truth hurts sometimes. Durbin was trying to make political hay out of attacking the administration–pure and simple. His careless disregard for the safety of our troops in trying to stoke the fires of the Democrat base was astounding. His “apology” fell short of the mark. His grandstanding overstatements probably resulted in the recruiting of more than a few suicide bombers.
Liberals trying to undermine the President???
Ummmmmm didn’t conservatives impeach the last President over a blow job? Your pot is calling our kettle all sorts of nasty things.
So are you saying that Durbins comments are OK? And that " Liberals trying to undermine the President??? " is not a fact? Thats the game from both sides everyone knows that (i think). Its just one big shell game of power. But what Durbin said was, you must admit, a little stupid and lacked good judgment.
I could have cared less about the BJ or the cigar thing. But just dont be a pussy, and tell the truth. And that goes for everyone!!! Thats why Bill got himself in a pickle, just like Martha. And no Mike, I realize that people lie, both demos and repubs so spare me the 2 page lecture about whatever. 
grrrr time for a little track work!!!
see, here’s where things are mixed up—which is causing more harm/danger to the troops: a) durbin’s statements that he quoted from an fbi report plus his further references to nazis, etc. or b) the policies that led to the events and the actual occurrences contained in the fbi report?
if you think it’s choice a), you are sadly mistaken…
moreover, he talked about ALL liberals, not just durbin. and why can’t i say “truth hurts” about dean’s white, christian comment when demographic analysis shows that 80% of repubs are white christians?
and again i ask, which is worse: durbin’s rhetoric or the actual events underlying them? which is actually the terrorist recruiting tool?
jeez… figure it out. One came before the other!
Durbin’s comments about torture are no more outrageous than the ACTUAL torture of detainees in Afghanistan, Iraq and Gitmo perpetuated by this administration
Rove and co are just much better at spin and drumming up conservative “outrage”. You have to give him a lot of credit for that.
We are torturing detainees as a matter of policy, a member of the minority expersses his disgust…OK his choice of comparisons could have been better but big whoop…and the spinmeisters manage to blame democrats for aiding the enemy by making such acusations.
IF YOU DON’T WANT TO AID THE ENEMY STOP FREAKING TORTURING DETAINEES.
what’s there to figure out? the message i’m receiving is abundantly clear: it’s the critics fault that the terrorists are pissed and able to recruit more members, not the actual policies/events underlying them.
“Unless you have clear evidence to the contrary, commentators should answer arguments instead of impugning the motives of those with whom they disagree.”
That quote is hilarious coming from the man who questioned the patriotism of Max Cleland and John McCain.
Freakin hilarious.
So you are saying Durbins comments are OK?
As Arnold would say… “just answer the question!”
“We are torturing detainees as a matter of policy, a member of the minority expersses his disgust…OK his choice of comparisons could have been better but big whoop…and the spinmeisters manage to blame democrats for aiding the enemy by making such acusations”
Jeez some people listen to “Air America” too much.
I know some guys who’ve been tortured–in Vietnam, China and Iraq. I don’t think turning up the AC and playing loud rap music would be considered torture by them.
But it might hurt their feeling and its not very nice anyways!
Former Congressman Pete Peterson:
From my 6 ½ years of captivity in Vietnam, I know what life in a foreign prison is like. To a large degree, I credit the Geneva Conventions for my survival. . . This is one reason the United States has led the world in upholding treaties governing the status and care of enemy prisoners: because these standards also protect us. . . We need absolute clarity that America will continue to set the gold standard in the treatment of prisoners in wartime.
The Army Field Manual on Intelligence Interrogation:
Use of torture and other illegal methods is a poor technique that yields unreliable results, may damage subsequent collection efforts, and can induce the source to say what he thinks the interrogator wants to hear. Revelation of use of torture by U.S. personnel will bring discredit upon the U.S. and its armed forces while undermining domestic and international support for the war effort. It may also place U.S. and allied personnel in enemy hands at a greater risk of abuse by their captors.
In and of itself loud music is not torture. But very loud music, for a prolonged amount of time, mixed with physical constraint (chains), extremes of temperature, lack of sleep, excrement, and other ‘stressors’ is torture - and almost certainly more severe than what your friends encountered. Furthermore, this was one description. Detainess have died. Detainees, while hooded, have had theirs heads slammed into concrete. Detainees have had electrodes placed on their testicles. For you to dismiss this with a facile comment about “loud rap music” shows you to be either quite obtuse or insincere. In other words, are you stupid or are you intellectually dishonest?
In and of itself loud music is not torture. But very loud music, for a prolonged amount of time, mixed with physical constraint (chains), extremes of temperature, lack of sleep, excrement, and other ‘stressors’ is torture - and . Furthermore, this was one description. Detainess have died. Detainees, while hooded, have had theirs heads slammed into concrete. Detainees have had electrodes placed on their testicles. For you to dismiss this with a facile comment about “loud rap music” shows you to be either quite obtuse or insincere. In other words, are you stupid or are you intellectually dishonest?
You must be kidding, right? “Almost certainly more severe than what your friends encountered?” Have you read any books written by people who were POWs in Japan, Korea, Vietnam, or Iraq? I was in the Marines from 1973 through 1979 and personally know many POWs. One guy they call “Fingers” because he had his thumb chopped off during a torture session. Most POWs in Vietnam had their hands tied behind their backs and were lifted off the floor by a rope tied around their hands and looped over a pulley and left to hang that way for hours. Read a book called “The Gulf Between Us” by my friend Col. Cliff Acree, USMC (Ret) about his torture in Iraq. Do you know what percentage of POWs in Vietnam, Japan or Korea even made it out alive? How about living on a bowl of pumpkin soup, which was really water with a slice of pumpkin rind in it, and a crust of bread a day for 6 years? How about going without medical treatment for broken legs suffered in ejections for 7 years? How about daily beatings, having excrement put in your food, solitary confinement for 9 years? You dare to have the balls to call me intellectually dishonest or stupid? You don’t know what the fuck you are talking about.
In case you haven’t figured it out, the Administration, as well as some of their supporters on this board, have indicated that any fault with the Iraq war, or the GWOT, as they have tried to bind together, is more a problem of PR than actual policy/execution.
Apparently, the problem isn’t our complete lack of postwar planning (as substantiated by numerous memos as well as the Downing Street memo), our inability to understand political/ethnic divisions, our inability to control, much less quell the insurgency (Abizaid contradicted Cheney today, saying that the insurgency is NOT in its last throes), our revocation of widely held standards of prisoner treatment, and the Administration’s complete unwillingness to admit error and change course.
Instead, any problems that may arise are either the fault of Democrats, liberals, the press, the Iraqis, the French, or anybody walking by the White House on the day they’re holding a rare press conference. Their complete lack of accountability is awe inspiring. They can’t make mistakes - the only problem is those miscreants who would empower our enemies by calling attention to our mistakes and arrogance. Apparently, success and failure is simply a matter of perception, not reality, if there is such a thing anymore.
How fucked is that?