Most jerseys are made in Asia, it’s not domestic production.
Your just paying a markup to other people that are paying to have the products made in Asia.
In my experience, every time I’ve tried to buy a cheap jersey, it ends up looking like a cheap jersey. The fit is weird, the fabric is off, it washes like crap… The best kits I own are the ones I paid an honest price for from a reputable company (i.e., Pactimo, Castelli, etc.).
I used to use cheap bibs from ebay on the trainer. They were fine for 60 minute trainer rides, but like anything in life, you get what you pay for.
FWIW, I have a rapha bib that sucks, and the desoto stuff I’ve had I’ve not been fond of (sorry!). I’ve had the best luck with Pactimo by far.
+1 for Pactimo. Wait for their stuff to go on sale.
Key word there is most.
Most is not all, until it is All we still have a chance to salvage the quality.
Once it is all, we are screwed and will be in a race to the bottom
Breweries I visit
.
Then which jerseys do you buy that are made domestically and aren’t grossly overpriced?
I’m unable to find any jersey listed in any of your posts here.
“Grossly over priced” is exactly the problem I am discussing.
Does it cost more to pay domestic labor to cut, sew and make anything relative to cheap overseas labor?
absolutely!
Does it cost more to source materials domestically?
Absolutely!
But comparing the price of goods made with cheap labor and low standards doesn’t make these products “grossly over priced” it means they are priced based on the cost of production.
I for one would gladly pay a little extra for a kit that gives someone else a good living wage AND moves us forward towards getting higher quality across the board.
I would argue the complete inverse, from an economics perspective the cheap overseas Ali express crap is grossly under priced and that is exactly the problem.
The dragging down of consumer expectations slowly takes us all with it.
You still haven’t suggested any US domestic manufactures and have avoided doing so.
It just sounds like you want to complain and not offer solutions.
You obviously haven’t worn anything I suggested from aliexpress and are making blanket statements about things you know nothing about.
Then which jerseys do you buy that are made domestically and aren’t grossly overpriced?
I’m unable to find any jersey listed in any of your posts here.
+1
“Grossly over priced” is exactly the problem I am discussing.
Does it cost more to pay domestic labor to cut, sew and make anything relative to cheap overseas labor?
absolutely!
Does it cost more to source materials domestically?
Absolutely!
But comparing the price of goods made with cheap labor and low standards doesn’t make these products “grossly over priced” it means they are priced based on the cost of production.
I for one would gladly pay a little extra for a kit that gives someone else a good living wage AND moves us forward towards getting higher quality across the board.
I would argue the complete inverse, from an economics perspective the cheap overseas Ali express crap is grossly under priced and that is exactly the problem.
The dragging down of consumer expectations slowly takes us all with it.
thanks for taking the time to represent this viewpoint. i happen to share it with you. i felt the same way when no-name carbon started to appear on group rides.
in a recent escape podcast, it was mentioned in passing that even though they are struggling with sales, few major bike manufacturers are working on bringing new people into the sport by way of devoting resources to advocating for meaningful improvements in cyclist safety, save for one american company, Trek.
it substantially changed my views on the next bike purchase i will make.
aligning all our spending with our values is very difficult, but for discretionary spending on stuff we do for fun, i think its a more reasonable aspiration.
I have not.
I have also at no point suggested that domestic = US. This problem is not exclusive to the US.
I have intentionally steered away from suggesting specific brands because of this fact.
Cheap outsourcing is not just a US problem, it was simply an assumption on your part that by domestic I meant US.
Completely concur.
Listen, it’s fucking hard to skip put on the cheap thing and intentionally spend a bit more, but it’s especially ially important with these nonessential goods otherwise we gradually degrade things to point where we can’t even decide these to spend sbit extra on essentials like food and stuff for sear h of higher quality because we simply can’t afford it anymore.
Developed nations are inherently economies built on “excess” or disposable spending. But if we spend wrong we all slowly erode our disposable income
You are still avoiding the question. You’ve had several chances to answer, I’m just going to assume you can’t for any region.
And, I’ll state it outright, $80 and it’s equivalent world wide is gouging the customer.
Jaret, I am not avoiding the question. I stared why I didn’t list some specific brands.
Primary reason is that the issue is $80 is random number you concocted and I’m not sure it’s validity because I do not work in that industry specifically in terms of costs. But I can guess the only way to make a jersey for $80 or less is to either use terrible materials or terrible labor/compensation practices.
Second, it is not a us specific problem. This an outsourced cheap labor problem so stating specific brands isn’t exactly valuable for the conversation at large.
Finally, and your comments prove my thinking here: I do not represent any brand and my words certainly don’t as such I know my words will probably piss some people off because even if they won’t admit it they feel subconsciously bad about their spending habits, or they have a dog in tge fight. Either way, I don’t want my duscussion points creating anger to reflect on any specific brand.
I do have several domestic (US) Brands I am a very loyal customer of, but won’t share those in this thread as to not get them tied in with contentious mud slinging of any kind.
Money is a difficult thing for people to talk about, but the reality is, most if not all of us on this thread could spend a little extra to ensure someone gets good working conditions and a fair wage. The side benefit from a theory perspective is that we might all end up with higher quality goods in general.
Again, just my opinion…
If you think $80+ is fair for a jersey then we don’t have anything else to discuss.
It’s ridiculous to me and I refuse to pay it when there are so many quality options available.
It all depends on your perspective. But yes, generally I feel outsourcing everything to the cheapest possible places and killing domestic low skill, blue collar jobs is a bad thing for everyone except those running the companies that outsource the jobs and the leaders of the countries exploiting cheap labor.
Especially when it comes to non necessities and luxury goods we should be willing to spend a little more to support domestic production and help our neighbor.
My two cents, I just find it funny when people in our sport will drop 15,000 on a bike they don’t need and then pinch pennies on other shit or buy cheap Chinese garbage elsewhere.
To boot: it drags down the quality of everything.
If I ho buy a cheap jersey from China, that means a domestic company that focuses on high quality products makes less and thus might have to reduce the quality of their product.
The Chinese cheepo sees this and brings their quality down a bit more, not enough to make me jump back to the more expense domestic, but enough to make more or lower prices.
It’s s viscous cycle of dragging down quality of consumer goods
Argue with my opinion all you want, it’s still an opinion.
1 billion percent this.
Well said.
I see it from a British ‘domestic’ viewpoint, but it holds true. Except we’re 30 years further down this race to the bottom than folks in North America, so have lost a lot of domestic manufacturing across many industries.
Both my childhood town and my ‘naturalised’ home town of 3 decades are both ex- textiles towns (mill towns as we’d call them - where he original swathe of cotton mills were built in the 1700s and 1800s - in fact the first mechanised cotton mill in the world is sited on the river less than 8 miles upstream of where I live. And how much fabric is made in any now? None.
Pecking order when possible for me
- GB
- Western Europe
- Eastern Eureope
- North America
- Japan or Oz
- India
- other places
Big gap
- China.
Then absolutely will go without… Russia.
I did manage to get some kit from Hackney GT that was actually sewn together in England. They get sizing right too as they are British.
Same for some other non-bike stuff too
- last bike ? British hand made steel. With as much British componenty as possible.
And it still cost $10k less than people dropping on an Asian made TT bike!
I hear you and that is fine. It is a difference of framing. I don’t view it as valuing the jersey more than $80, I view it as valuing the people doing things to make the jersey that I have no idea how to do more than the pennies they are paid.
For me it is about valuing the human lives that create the thing. Not just the thing.
I’m sure you value workers but not all US companies do and that is another point we will disagree on.
In the end everything sorts itself out, always has, always will. Lowest cost for a given perceived value level wins that segment. That’s how we got where we are today. People will just go about doing something else when it’s not worth it anymore, creating a merry-go-round of winners and losers through the ages. There is a long list of trades that have vanished since the dawn of civilization, and people have been better for it on the aggregate. Today’s environment just moves faster, for better or for worse.
But getting back on subject, I love Swiftofo on Aliexpress for my everyday jerseys and bibs, Castelli for my tri suit and Nopinz for my tt suit. All of these were the best price for my perceived value for each application and met my willingness to pay threshold.
I wouldn’t be so quick to assume. I certainly do not disagree with you on that.
But, while there are certainly bad actors and those who don’t treat employees with respect the US does have better than most labor laws and wage requirements.
And listen I’ll be the first to admit I don’t like most or many of those rules and regulations placed on business. Because exactly what I an advocating for here could and should be the solution.
An informed consumer base voting with their dollars would/could weed out the bad actors and reward those who make good products with good practices.
The problem is, we the consumer are all so cost focused it is and endless race ti the bottom both domestically and internationally.
And to be honest, I know it’s not realistic to get everyone in the states to spend a little extra on things to buy from companies who have good products and practices, but I for one am willing to put my money towards those who will do those things.
In the end, especially here, we are talking about triathlon and cycling amongst the nice sports withe the most wasted disposable income thrown around for sure! So if there is a place to start, where better!?!
I’ll get off my high horse meow since I know the fight is futile, but I sleep better at night knowing I tried … (he saud with a shit eating grin knowing that posting on a forum doesn’t little to constitute “trying”)
Can anyone actually give some advice on decent jerseys to buy? Over $80 is fine.