I see the Zipp 606s are about 1750g in clinchers, and around 1350g in tubs. After typical tire/tube vs. tub tire differences, that’s like 500g, all at the rim. Same thing w/ the Mavic Carbones, only a bit heavier still.
I’m no weight weenie, but over a pound of additional rotating mass?? Both the wheels above use really light hubs, too, so that extra mass vs. say a high quality box rim is even bigger.
Hmmph. What to do…
My guess is that the significance or lack of significance depends on the application and road conditions.
Heard that the hour record was set with an unusually heavy disk under the assumption that the inertia was a positive factor once you got started. Of course the track would be steady effort with no terrain or outside variables like the road. I kind of wonder if the whole inertia thing also relates to the fact that this application is fixed gear, so effectively you get the benefit of all of that inertia helping you though the dead spot in the pedal stroke.
A relatively flat TT course that is relatively non-technical might not show any gains from lighter wheels, while a more technical course (acceleration/deceleration) or one with some climbing might benefit from lighter wheels.
Sosenka rode heavy wheels to a world record:* *http://cbw.cz/phprs/2005072523.html
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I can tell you that there is no question that you can feel the weight of the rim on a 404 clincher over the tubular…to me, even more reason to think that anyone with a 404 clincher (or any Zipp clincher) is a fool.
I doubt there’s a big performance difference in a time trial type race like most tris. Maybe at Wildflower or a hilly race it would matter.
BUT find a 404 front tubular and a 404 front clincher. Lift them both and I promise you there is no way you’ll go clincher… Better yet, get tubulars and then find a friend with clinchers, make him do the test and watch his face:)
I doubt there’s a big performance difference in a time trial type race like most tris. Maybe at Wildflower or a hilly race it would matter.
BUT find a 404 front tubular and a 404 front clincher. Lift them both and I promise you there is no way you’ll go clincher… Better yet, get tubulars and then find a friend with clinchers, make him do the test and watch his face:)
Too bad your test has nothing whatsoever to do with bike performance…
I can tell you that there is no question that you can feel the weight of the rim on a 404 clincher over the tubular…to me, even more reason to think that anyone with a 404 clincher (or any Zipp clincher) is a fool.
Maybe those ‘fools’ realize that the lower rolling resistance of clinchers makes a larger performance difference than the heavier weight on anything short of an uphill TT. Maybe they’d rather be training than spending time following arcane gluing rituals. Maybe they realize that ‘sew ups never get flats’ is a myth. Maybe they realize that sew ups are silly for most non-elite athletes that aren’t able to pick and choose the roundest tires and have access to mechanics that know how to glue them on properly so that their rolling resistance can almost be competitive with top of the line clinchers.
FYI, I have a set of sew up race wheels. A big mistake, PITA to deal with, not that much faster than my training wheels, if I had it to do again I’d go clincher.
I guess we better tell all those fools at the TdF and Euro peloton to get rid if their tubulars…oh, and 99% of the Pro tri guys too…
You have never riden them have you…I have ridden both back to back, the Clinchers suck in weight and road feel - period.
Is there an easy way to glue tubies, and clean the rim when you need to put on a new tire these days? I only ask because I used to run tubies in the '80s, and the nightmares of trying to clean off that heinous dried red glue (can’t remember the brand–might have been Conti) off the rim still haunts me.
Not so bad…do it while watching TV…builds charicter…and no, not really :->
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Agreed. When I was racing, I would train on a set of heavy Mavic box rim 36 spoke clincher wheels then switch to ZIPP 404 tubulars with Conti GP’s for racing. The difference was extraordinary. The bike felt completely different in a very positive way. I am guessing that under similar conditions I could ride at least 2 cogs smaller( 2 gears bigger) at the same effort!
Fleck
I felt the same even with 404 Clinchers and 404 Tubulars…I hear I am stupid and slow for thinking that though.
I felt the same even with 404 Clinchers and 404 Tubulars…I hear I am stupid and slow for thinking that though.
I’m curious to hear your views on tub vs. clincher rolling resistance. One argument is “hey, nearly all the RR pros ride them.” If tubs really did add something like a minute or 2 to a 40K TT, then there’s no way anyone would ride them in the TdF. But… they may use hard glue that we can’t. That still doesn’t explain why tri pros use them, etc. I don’t think anyone would trade the only possibly-needed quicker flat change for the guaranteed slower rolling, would they?