I am looking to get some new racing wheels. I am approx 180pds and uncertain which wheelset to get, ie Carbones are reliable and strong, whereas the Zipps seem to get great reviews and have the edge in weight.
Any thoughts…
Are both those wheels regularly avaiable in Japan? Here in Europe the Mavics are way easier to find, and thus significantly cheaper then the 404’s.
The natural following question is, what kind of racing do you do? While the 404s have the edge in weight, you will be breaking on a carbon surface, which might require special care and/or brake pads. This in my view favors the Carbones.
But as Gary pointed out, there are other options - check out Spinergy Xaero Carbon, Hed Alps, etc etc ad infinitum…
Good luck on your choice,
Gary,
What are the primary differences between the Tilium Carbon SS, which is what you appear to have reviewed, and the Tilium Carbon? It appears that the latter is lighter and has a carbon appearance . . . but is there a significant difference? It also looks as if the nipples may be external.
Thanks.
Robert
There are a few excellent wheels out there…
If you have to choose between the ZIPPS or the Mavic’s…go for the ZIPP for sure…
Also, you don’t need special brake pads. you can use Shimano pads on the carbon rim. They sell speciall pads that disinigrate into dust, but you relaly don’t nee them.
My opinion…
According to some of the testing that is posted, the 404’s are also more aero than the Carbones. The 404’s are second only to the Hed tri spoke in this area.
Zipps all the way!
I work at hed, but I cannot resist chiming in. If you can’t get or don’t want some of our wheels, I think you would be well served with zipp. The reason why they have the edge in weight is because the construction of the two wheels is totally different. The zipp wheel is all carbon - the strength and structure of the rim comes from the carbon, and the entire rim section is structural.
The carbones are a very good copy of our Jet wheel - that is, they consist of an off the shelf alloy rim (or close to it, something that could stand alone) to which a carbon fairing is bonded. This makes for a very robust and reasonably priced wheel, but the two wheels are very different.
For you as a rider, the biggest differnce will be the weight, carbones will be quite a bit heavier. Aero-wise, they should be very similar, if one has a lower spoke count it will be more aero, but there won’t be much difference in the rims alone. Well price might be different too, the carbones should be alot less, they are much less labor intensive to make, and materials cost less too.
I have never been to the zipp or mavic factory, so I am not anythink like an authority on either wheel specifically, but I know a bunch about wheels in general, and I know what it should take to make each of these, and that is what I base my comments on. -andy
Andy and the other posters are correct in that Zipp rims are way better than Carbone rims. Unfortunately that is only half the picture. 2002 and earlier Zipp hubs have a poor durability record. Zipp seems to have finally solved the problem with their 2003 and 2004 hubs, but in doing so the wheelset price went through the roof. Pardon the pun, but they would have been better off not “reinventing the wheel” and using someone else’s hubs.
I think the best choice would be Zipp rims on Campy, Shimano, or Mavic hubs. Better durability, less money, and readily available replacement parts. Build 'em yourself and you’ll even learn a useful skill. Otherwise look at Endurosport.
Gary,
What are the primary differences between the Tilium Carbon SS, which is what you appear to have reviewed, and the Tilium Carbon? It appears that the latter is lighter and has a carbon appearance . . . but is there a significant difference? It also looks as if the nipples may be external.
Thanks.
Robert
I own an '03 404 set and the hubs are the poop! Seriously, I have never seen silkier hubs that will literally spin for minutes when on a stand. The whole wheelset is very robust as well, I’m 195 and have never had to true them. If your going to get a wheelset, get the ZIPP’s!
If you want Zipp 404’s with decent hubs then buy the Cane Creek Cronos Carbons, I believe it is the same rim as Zipp on very nice hubs.
The Cosmic Carbone (alu wheels with plastic spoiler) are much better wheels than most “real” carbone wheels:
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100% true
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Rock solid
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100% trueable (but you never need it)
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Very nice handling in decents, uneven surfaces etc.
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Mavic hubs
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Alu rim, no need for special brake pads, no risk for over-heating in long decents etc.
But there is a weight penality.
Does anybody know why the tubular version of the Cosmic Carbon is the same weight as the clincher ?
- Lionel
ErnieK,
You weigh 195 lbs. Do you have the standard 404s or the “Clydesdale” 404s? I am asking because I weigh 192 lbs. and I am pondering a set of 404s.
Thanks.
Not are the Carbones only an excellent wheel, but Mavic offers their MP3 program with those wheels and all their wheels for that matter. They have to be purchased from an authorized dealer and for 8% above the MSRP Mavic will warranty them for 2yrs no ?'s asked. I would not hesitate for one minute on getting those wheels. Zipps are great and so are Hed but I don’t think either company offers this type of warranty. This is a great program especially if your worried about being to heavy.
American classics and velomax make one with the zipp rim.
In my opinion Velomax makes some of the finest hubs ever, they have tons of reviews about durability and they use fewer spokes than zipp.
The price is almost the same. I can’t understand why anybody that knows that, would still buy zipps.
Where can you get the 'o4 Velomax carbon tubulars and what is the price on them?
Also does anyone have info, (price, availability), on the FSA R800? Thanx.
call bob from AroadBike4U.com and tell him you got his name from alex from Boulder, he might give you a good deal (1200 or so), the list price is 1450 I think.
I will do that. Thanx much for the info!