What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time?

Triathlon Forum
21

I mean, in your list you included a legendary character from a couple thousand years ago with little facts actually known… //

Actually there are many accounts of his accomplishments, the Greeks were a writing bunch of historians. Here is a take from a modern day ultra runner, interesting about the unknown runner that actually died in the 25 mile run…

https://www.runnersworld.com/…-pheidippides-story/

I would bet my life that Serena has won 23 grand slam titles, I wouldn’t even put money on any Pheidippides ‘facts’. Not saying I know he didn’t exist, or even didn’t do what is said. There is just a very good chance of embellishment over time considering the little amount that was actually written.

22

I think she has a respectable argument for greatest female athlete. Of course those arguments are fairly pointless.

Serena doesn’t lead ANY category of wins in women’s tennis, and she isnt even listed in some categories (she’s never completed the grand slam for instance).

Margaret Court is on every list and is #1 on three of them (more than any other player):
Most grand slam singles wins, most titles at a si.gle tournament, most consecutive tournament titles.

Serena does not dominate her sport the way that Margaret Court did, and she doesn’t even compare to the dominance of people like Gretzky, Phelps, Ali, et al… Who completely changed the standard by which others are judged.

23

It would be hard not to give this title to Kelly Slater. The youngest ever world surfing champion 20 and oldest 39 including 5 consecutive. He also had a three years off during his prime returning to win more world titles and to still be as progressive as any of the new younger gromets still surfing competitively at 46! That being said a different sport but a smaller competitive window Michael Phelps would have to rate pretty close.

24

Greatest athlete of all time. Secretariat. Still holds the Belmont record set in 1973.

25

I think you can’t possibly compare athletes who play a team sport to athletes who compete individually, has to be two different categories for me.

26

It would be hard not to give this title to Kelly Slater.//

He made my list, Phelps did not. As record breaking and dominant as Phelps was, I just dont consider swimming enough of an all round sport. Surfing on the other hand requires many more facets of the human body, not just endurance and speed. That’s why Thorpe was my top pick, besides the 10 sports of the decathlon, the 5 sports of the pentathlon, he played pro baseball, basketball, and football.

I figure a triathlete ought to be in the top 10, pretty versatile sport with a heavy emphasis on endurance. IT is such a hard topic talking about greatest athletes, everyone comes with their own bias and what constitutes greatness, and which sports deserve higher point values. But I think we can all agree that Serena is not the greatest athlete, that seems like a no brainer…(-;

27

It bothers me for the same reason fake news bothers me (pink font - kinda/sorta). You can’t be the greatest athlete of all time if there are hundreds, if not thousands, of humans who can beat you at your own sport.

I didn’t read your whole post, I didn’t need to. Why does it bother you if Nike - or anyone - makes that claim? I hope you never get one of those world’s greatest dad or mum mugs I feel for the response your poor kid might get.

Ridiculous. Paula Newby-Fraser is one of the greatest triathletes of all time. Please try to claim otherwise. Men and women compete in different divisions for a reason.

28

I think you can’t possibly compare athletes who play a team sport to athletes who compete individually, has to be two different categories for me. //

I agree, and each category has to have two more categories, men and women. My list is from the individual sport category, mens only…

29

Even as far as females go, Katie Ledecky is better at her sport than Serena at hers. In fact, Katie might be the greatest ever, mens or womens in any sport.

30

I think she has a respectable argument for greatest female athlete. Of course those arguments are fairly pointless.

Serena doesn’t lead ANY category of wins in women’s tennis, and she isnt even listed in some categories (she’s never completed the grand slam for instance).

Margaret Court is on every list and is #1 on three of them (more than any other player):
Most grand slam singles wins, most titles at a si.gle tournament, most consecutive tournament titles.

Serena does not dominate her sport the way that Margaret Court did, and she doesn’t even compare to the dominance of people like Gretzky, Phelps, Ali, et al… Who completely changed the standard by which others are judged.

I agree with you Tom. There is often a proximity bias to the present which is hard to overcome and remain objective.

My own list would have to start with the most dominant people* in their sport* before I started to ruminate about* best eve*r…

Gretsky (?Orr-I’m still a Bawston fan!..)
Phelps (was Spitz-not anymore)
some squash player that I can’t remember who I think never lost or something like that
Woods (?Nicholas)
Bolt, Owens-same but different
Marciano, Ali, Lewis (although Tyson changed the game too)
Court (or McKay-not likely Serena, but at least I’ve seen her in person)
Jordan (?Chamberlain, James-room for arguments…)
Federer
Montana to Rice --I just think it should be a combination, like it was IRL (? Brown, Brady, LT)
Ruth>Cobb
Slater
Bradman
Pele, Maradona (?Ronaldo-man my son had me watch so many shots of his on youtube)
Schumacker, Petty

Armstrong-NOT

31

Were you born in the 1800s?!

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Yes they do compete in different divisions for a reason, because the best women tennis players could not compete with the top men. Sorry that upsets you. PNF is not faster or a better athlete than Jan Frodeno because she won more Kona titles. What determines who is the best triathlete? Is it not speed? So how is PNF a better triathlete than someone who can beat her by close to an hour?

It bothers me for the same reason fake news bothers me (pink font - kinda/sorta). You can’t be the greatest athlete of all time if there are hundreds, if not thousands, of humans who can beat you at your own sport.

I didn’t read your whole post, I didn’t need to. Why does it bother you if Nike - or anyone - makes that claim? I hope you never get one of those world’s greatest dad or mum mugs I feel for the response your poor kid might get.

Ridiculous. Paula Newby-Fraser is one of the greatest triathletes of all time. Please try to claim otherwise. Men and women compete in different divisions for a reason.

33

Paula Newby-Fraser is one of the greatest triathletes of all time.

notice I didn’t offer a suggestion for the greatest* triathlete*…
PNF is on the woman’s list, for sure, but how about Chrissie-she’s my choice, just sayin’

men…hmmm…too many-Allen? but gotta consider Alexander, Scott-also McCormack, Gomez, Brownlee, Frodo

34

I think she has a respectable argument for greatest female athlete. Of course those arguments are fairly pointless.

Serena doesn’t lead ANY category of wins in women’s tennis, and she isnt even listed in some categories (she’s never completed the grand slam for instance).

Margaret Court is on every list and is #1 on three of them (more than any other player):
Most grand slam singles wins, most titles at a si.gle tournament, most consecutive tournament titles.

Serena does not dominate her sport the way that Margaret Court did, and she doesn’t even compare to the dominance of people like Gretzky, Phelps, Ali, et al… Who completely changed the standard by which others are judged.

I agree with you Tom. There is often a proximity bias to the present which is hard to overcome and remain objective.

My own list would have to start with the most dominant people* in their sport* before I started to ruminate about* best eve*r…

Gretsky (?Orr-I’m still a Bawston fan!..)
Phelps (was Spitz-not anymore)
some squash player that I can’t remember who I think never lost or something like that
Woods (?Nicholas)
Bolt, Owens-same but different
Marciano, Ali, Lewis (although Tyson changed the game too)
Court (or McKay-not likely Serena, but at least I’ve seen her in person)
Jordan (?Chamberlain, James-room for arguments…)
Federer
Montana to Rice --I just think it should be a combination, like it was IRL (? Brown, Brady, LT)
Ruth>Cobb
Slater
Bradman
Pele, Maradona (?Ronaldo-man my son had me watch so many shots of his on youtube)
Schumacker, Petty

Armstrong-NOT

So you bring up an interesting point. Jordan in my opinion is the best basketball player of all time. Yet on my list he is 2nd behind Lebron as the greatest athlete of all time. Jordan’s time in baseball was pretty damning to his GOAT athlete.

Someone like Deion Sanders or Bo Jackson have compelling arguments. Sanders was one of the best cover corners to play football and was a pretty good at baseball. Bo was Bo. Amazing but a flash in the pan.

This is why I love this conversation.

35

That’s because the term athlete must be more encompassing than not. I won’t include a checkers champion on the list-as that ‘sport’ isn’t athletic, but other sports are more inherently athletic.

What sport is most athletic?

Now that’s a question…

and to be able to dominate in one sport and be awfully awesome in another is unique-and is why people like Bo and Deion make the list
(*I still remember that night that Bo ran back the ball for a TD and ran right out of the stadium-I believe it was on MNF-just took my breath away at the time)

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/0ap3000000591682/Bo-Jackson-can-t-stop-himself-from-scoring

36

That’s because the term athlete must be more encompassing than not. I won’t include a checkers champion on the list-as that ‘sport’ isn’t athletic, but other sports are more inherently athletic.

What sport is most athletic?

Now that’s a question…

and to be able to dominate in one sport and be awfully awesome in another is unique-and is why people like Bo and Deion make the list

You are exactly right about the term *athlete. *I don’t think there is a correct answer to who is the greatest of all time. But, for me, it sure is fun to talk about.

What sport is the most athletic. Another can of worms!

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  1. Jim Thorp
  2. Jim Brown
  3. Bo Jackson

Then a long way to the next person…

38

It’s not worth getting butthurt over.

It’s by its nature a statement and question merely for entertainment value. It’s like asking who the great writer is. Or greatest musician. Greatest sports car. Greatest internet troll.

They aren’t really statements intended to establish finality, but to provoke a response and a discussion. Which it did both with you.

39

Just some food for thought. Holy smokes!!! These guys are athletes and crazy.

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With modern “athletes” we are seeing achievements from great technicians.

Sports science has come along way; and today’s athletes make choices or choices are made for them to specialize in a sport at a very early age.

When I think of some one who would be called the greatest athlete, I think of someone who has an incredible combination of strength, speed and coordination. They could be successful at almost any sport. They probably wouldn’t be the best at any one sport.

To me it’s hard to gauge how a modern athlete slots in on that basis.