What they REALLY ARE riding on the TDF

Look up the wattage forum on google groups under Tufo tire slam for the relevant articles that point to the assumption that higher psi produces lower resitance. I haven’t seen any other study disproving this point, all the studies so far have done tire testing at 120psi.

…and the most “telling” comment in that whole thread was by Andy Coggan:

tubulars at 175-220psi probably have
lower rolling resistance than clinchers which can’t be inflated above
130-160psi.

Not based on some data that I recently had the opportunity to analyze.

Andy Coggan

Also, Bicycle Quarterly published “roll down” data that a 21mm Clement Criterium rolled slower at 130 psi vs. 105 psi on an asphalt surface.

In addition, our own Jens did a test a LONG time ago with Tufos at 120 and 150 psi. Guess what? They were slower at 150.

There was an article again on that forum that showed that a 19mm tire has a 15watt advantage over 21 or 22mm tire due to aerodynamics at 50km/h.

Really? I’m supposed to believe data from Conti? If they know so much about rolling resistance, why don’t they do something about the fact that all their tires are dog slow? Just a brief glance again at that article (I read it when it first came out) revealed a couple of cases where whoever wrote that article didn’t quite “get it”.

I don’t understand your last point since it proves my point that if they don’t ride clinchers at the pro level there must be a reason for it. Lance spent hours in the wind tunnel testing position, wheel and even clothing. This was a special section on Versus prior to the 05 Tour. I doubt he would waste his time looking for a 1-2 sec advantage in clothing when there was a 30 sec advantage by using clinchers as some here claim by looking at the resistance data.

Hmmm…I guess you never heard of Gianni Bugno winning a Giro de Italia and a pair of World Championships on Michelin clinchers, huh?

I remember that special on OLN. I also remember him talking to the guys designing his skinsuit and they were brainstorming locations for the radio. They asked him something like “Did you ever consider putting the radio in the front?”…and his response was a clear “No” with the facial expression communicating “…and don’t even consider doing it”.

Also, in Coyle’s book he relates the case where after testing out the Trek “narrow bike” TT concept, he and Ferrari discovered that in long TTs his power would tend to suffer near the end. The Trek engineers tried to convince him that even with the lower power output he was still faster because of the aerodynamic gains. It didn’t matter, from that point on, the bike was “junk” in his eyes.

Besides, Al Morrison hadn’t done all his roller testing back in '05 :wink:
Tom A…the same guy who only 3 days ago tried to convince everyone that tubulars were “unsafe” based on the guard rail crash of a CSC rider in stage 6 or 7 and what Indurian was riding in the tour eons ago. As it turned out he had his facts completely ass backwards and shut up with his tail between his legs. Now he’s back at it on tubulars again…Tom, just keep using your clinchers and try not to fart to bad on the bike leg so other riders don’t get grossed out as they pass by.

    Tom A............the same guy who only 3 days ago tried to convince everyone that tubulars were "unsafe" based on the guard rail crash of a CSC rider in stage 6 or 7 and what Indurian was riding in the tour eons ago. As it turned out he had his facts completely ass backwards and shut up with his tail between his legs. Now he's back at it on tubulars again...........Tom, just keep using your clinchers and try not to fart to bad on the bike leg so other riders don't get grossed out as they pass by.

Huh? Care to point out what facts I had bass-ackwards?

“…shut up with his tail between his legs…”??? You obviously don’t know me very well…

Careful, the starting of ad hominem attacks are typically a clear indication of someone on the losing end of an argument.

so, what tire pressures are the pro’s really using in the tdf?

There was an article again on that forum that showed that a 19mm tire has a 15watt advantage over 21 or 22mm tire due to aerodynamics at 50km/h.

Really? I’m supposed to believe data from Conti? If they know so much about rolling resistance, why don’t they do something about the fact that all their tires are dog slow? Just a brief glance again at that article (I read it when it first came out) revealed a couple of cases where whoever wrote that article didn’t quite “get it”.

No kidding Tom. Considering the drag of an 808 at 50kph is approximately 18W, any statement of a 15W advantage is not only a joke but a flat out lie. In order to get a 15W difference from an 808/404/H3 category wheel you have to go all the way back in technology and rim depth to a plain Mavic Kysrium. To state something like this is to show a total lack of aerodynamic knowledge. I’d suggest those interested go over to here:

http://biketechreview.com/tunnel_main.htm

And pay the $14.95 for the H3/404/disc data where he also tests a 25mm vs 20mm tire on the same wheel.

so, what tire pressures are the pro’s really using in the tdf?

Who knows? You’ll have to ask the mechanics. I’m sure it varies all over the board and changes depending on the conditions. Even then, what does it matter? It doesn’t mean that whatever they say is “optimal”…you’re making the assumption that they actually know…

'scuse my ignorance Francois. Who was responsible for #2

There was an article again on that forum that showed that a 19mm tire has a 15watt advantage over 21 or 22mm tire due to aerodynamics at 50km/h.

Really? I’m supposed to believe data from Conti? If they know so much about rolling resistance, why don’t they do something about the fact that all their tires are dog slow? Just a brief glance again at that article (I read it when it first came out) revealed a couple of cases where whoever wrote that article didn’t quite “get it”.
No kidding Tom. Considering the drag of an 808 at 50kph is approximately 18W, any statement of a 15W advantage is not only a joke but a flat out lie. In order to get a 15W difference from an 808/404/H3 category wheel you have to go all the way back in technology and rim depth to a plain Mavic Kysrium. To state something like this is to show a total lack of aerodynamic knowledge. I’d suggest those interested go over to here:

http://biketechreview.com/tunnel_main.htm

And pay the $14.95 for the H3/404/disc data where he also tests a 25mm vs 20mm tire on the same wheel.

Hmmm…well it’s good to see I didn’t get that fact bass-ackwards :wink:

Eddie with a fag in his mouth? Wonder what the brits and aussies on this forum think about this…

The Brits and the Aussies (and of course the English, Julian) would just assume that he has a cigarette between his lips. It is the North Americans that might draw a completely different conclusion

Ullrich and Vino for instance…

That’s a first… I’ve heard of re-badged Calfees, Walsers, Lightspeeds, Cervelos, Looks… but never heard of a Pegoretti in the tour… who rides them?

Do a google for Pegoretti and you’ll find that many riders have been “rumored” to have been on rebadged frames that Dario Pegoretti made. I believe he started his career at Pinarello and kept making Jan Ullrich’s steeds even after he left the company.

A little clarification, the original Schwinn company purchased controlling interest of Kestrel/Cycle Composites Inc, in 1988. At that time Schwinn was sponsoring Mark Allen and they put him on a Kestrel 4000 with Schwinn decals. I believe the Grip won all his races in 1988, except Kona, and then in 1989 won all his races, INCLUDING his first IM-Hawaii, on another 4000 with Schwinn labels. (Anyone remember the Nike/Allen “Go Like Hell” poster? That’s the bike I’m refering to.)

As to the old Profile carbon bikes (“Profile by Design” was it?), to my knowledge none of those were Kestrel frames, but actually made by Graphite Technologies in Maine as I recall. The same or similar frame was supplied to Basso and others and was later marketed under the “Bik” (pronounced “bike”) name.

Cheers,
Preston at Kestrel